What is going with the Paypal module? EU, USA modules?

[michael]

I did not test Bees Paypal module, but I have noticed on Prestashop that there are 2 or 3 modules.

One for EU, 2nd for USA, Canada, why it happen?

Is it the same for Bees module?

Any solution? At the moment I use old Paypal module.

[michael]

Website Payments Plus - what is that? I wanted to google it but there is no info.

only info about Paypal Pro.

"Legacy methods such as Hosted Payment Solutions, PayPal Payments Advanced and Payflow Link will not return. PayPal wants to discontinue these services and replace some of those with the other solutions they provide or with Braintree." Is there any link to read more about it?

[michael]

I have some improvements to paypal. Where I can put my experiences?

I have noticed that very often Paypal block payments by card (debit, credit). It is not blocked by limits on customer side (eg. daily limits) but only by Paypal.

I have got info from Paypal that they block a payment when customer is using multiple times payment by card and don't want to open a paypal account.

I am talking about situation where cust have only card, not a Paypal account and connected a card there.

I did not test Bees module but on Prestashop there was a poor error handling. No info to customer what he should do next, e.g try again or use other payment method.

Sometimes on Paypal when customer have two cards 1 expired and 2nd new, Paypal use 1st card and there is an error, when customer use it 2nd time (second try to purchase) the payment will be OK.

I have tested it many times.

I can provide you more info error codes if you want to implement it.

[ssimard]

Paypal became a big problem in Canada lately. I can share what I learned so far..

1. The REST API is NOT supported in Canada for credit card validation.
2. Paypal website payment Pro has been deprecated, meaning you can NO LONGER create API signatures for that in your Paypal account.
3. The Paypal website payment Pro signatures that were already created and working can still be used (thankfully).
4. I only found 1 TB's compatible Paypal module that work for on-site credit card validation in Canada at the moment and it is PayPal Pro v1.4.3 - by Presto-Changeo.
5. I could configure and make it work properly using my old API signature that I am currently using on my old website. There is NO WAY to get them anymore in your Paypal account so if you did not save these infos somewhere, you are lost.

Website payment Pro has been deprecated and replaced by Paypal payment Pro (I'm so lost with these different names they are using) and I don't even know if there are any Canada-compatible modules that supports that already.

This is all I know for now, will stick with PayPal Pro v1.4.3 - by Presto-Changeo as long as possible until it fails... and by then I really hope there will be a usable solution for Canada.

[ssimard]

@mdekker said in What is going with the Paypal module? EU, USA modules?:

But I can't find any info on Payments Pro being deprecated tbh.

Look again ;-) --> https://developer.paypal.com/docs/classic/api/#website-payments-pro

Note: Website Payments Pro is deprecated and has been replaced by PayPal Payments Pro. Website Payments Pro is still supported for existing merchants.

[ssimard]

@mdekker said in What is going with the Paypal module? EU, USA modules?:

That really means no future for those anymore. PayPal must have an alternative then.

That's what I am trying to find out since the REST API is NOT supported in Canada..

The old API still works for now.. but for how long ?

[ssimard]

@mdekker said in What is going with the Paypal module? EU, USA modules?:

I see that Canadian Dollars can be accepted via the REST API. It would be strange not to connect Canadians with the REST API.

I will dig it, I have read it somewhere in the docs.. they wont accept direct credit card payments using the REST API in Canada.

Direct Credit Card Payments

For direct credit card payments, PayPal accepts buyer credit cards issued in any country. However, the >merchant must have a Pro UK merchant account with PayPal to process PayPal REST API direct credit card >payments. This is the only supported merchant account for REST API direct credit card payments at this >time. UK Pro merchants can refer to supported currencies for details.

I have read something more explicit.. will post back.

[ssimard]

Will have to check Braintree in details, never looked at it.

My finance dept wanted to stay with Paypal since they are already used to it. I wanted to stay with them for simplicity.. but it is anything but simple these days, even Paypal docs are contradictory.

[ssimard]

Important: Website Payments Pro has been replaced in the US and Canada by PayPal Payments Pro. >Website Payments Pro is still supported for new merchants in the UK and for previously integrated >merchants in the US and Canada. For PayPal Payments Pro integration information, see the PayPal >Payments Pro / Payflow documentation.

I'm not sure what the difference is... they barely changed the name, it's hard to understand.

[ssimard]

Do they have to use PayPal's systems or are they just used to using PayPal?

Just used to using it, they don't like change ;-)

I wanted to go with our debit card processor (Moneris) at first but there is only one module for Prestashop and wanted to go with a more widespread technology (Paypal). Thinking about future support here, I don't want to write a full module all my myself..

[dynambee]

@ssimard PayPal bought Braintree some years ago and I think they might have the goal of moving their direct credit card processing business off the PayPal platform and onto Braintree. AFAIK they haven't stated this publicly but the changes they are making kinda-sorta-maybe (it's PayPal after all...) seem to point in that direction.

[michael]

@ssimard said in What is going with the Paypal module? EU, USA modules?:

Paypal became a big problem in Canada lately. I can share what I learned so far..

1. The REST API is NOT supported in Canada for credit card validation.
2. Paypal website payment Pro has been deprecated, meaning you can NO LONGER create API signatures for that in your Paypal account.
3. The Paypal website payment Pro signatures that were already created and working can still be used (thankfully).
4. I only found 1 TB's compatible Paypal module that work for on-site credit card validation in Canada at the moment and it is PayPal Pro v1.4.3 - by Presto-Changeo.
5. I could configure and make it work properly using my old API signature that I am currently using on my old website. There is NO WAY to get them anymore in your Paypal account so if you did not save these infos somewhere, you are lost.

Website payment Pro has been deprecated and replaced by Paypal payment Pro (I'm so lost with these different names they are using) and I don't even know if there are any Canada-compatible modules that supports that already.

This is all I know for now, will stick with PayPal Pro v1.4.3 - by Presto-Changeo as long as possible until it fails... and by then I really hope there will be a usable solution for Canada.

@ssimard You can get it from database too, it was in plain text if I remember.

[michael]

Why they want to make a change? New system, newer solution or new manager who have a project ;) ?

[michael]

@mdekker Thank you

buu Error As a new user, you can only post once every 120 second(s) until you have earned 3 reputation - please wait before posting again

[michael]

https://www.paypal.com/de/webapps/mpp/paypal-plus It is only for German paypal. It have EC and Rechnung.

Rechnung how this rechnung really works? Is it like pay by collection?

and

https://developer.paypal.com/docs/classic/products/payflow-gateway/ I was not aware that something like it exist (:

[ssimard]

@mdekker said in What is going with the Paypal module? EU, USA modules?:

OT: would Braintree be a better alternative? I see they apply a very simple pricing scheme: NA: 2.9% + $.30 EU: 1.9% + €0.30

My goal is to build this new website and get it online asap. I will eventually check into alternatives if Paypal ever fails but as long as I can keep using it, I think I will.

Once Paypal Payment Pro is added into the native module we should be fine here I assume.

But I will definitely investigate on Braintree after that.

[michael]

@mdekker is Braintree is better then Stripe? it seems cost more

1.4% + 20p for European cards. UK 2.9% + 20p for non-European cards.

1.4% + €0.25 for European cards. DE 2.9% + €0.25 for non-European cards.

2.9% + 30¢ per successful card charge USA

I am thinking if it would be possible to get a better price for our community. If we would collect all members who use Stripe and contact them and ask if they can give us (Bees) better price.

What do you think about this idea? I can contact with them if we will find a number of users.

[Havouza]

Many European users will stay away from Stripe because of their payout policy. Also Japan has the same problem we found out yesterday

[michael]

what problem? that they keep money for a week?

the same is in Skrill, they can keep also Amazon also keep money and if they want can keep it longer

[michael]

what is the best payment method for EU especially for DACH countries (Germany Austria Swizerland) France and UK

2 ) for USA ?

[Havouza]

I sell in 4-5 EU countries and use Paypal, except in Sweden where we use a national broker that has also invoice possibility. Its expensive machines most. But for the rest I am not interested in being a bank and because abroker want to earn money. I pay in advance to the supplier for all sold goods Why should I have to wait. There is no technical problems. And especially when different merchants are treated differently depending on where the have the business

[dynambee]

@Havouza said in What is going with the Paypal module? EU, USA modules?:

I sell in 4-5 EU countries and use Paypal, except in Sweden where we use a national broker that has also invoice possibility. Its expensive machines most. But for the rest I am not interested in being a bank and because abroker want to earn money. I pay in advance to the supplier for all sold goods Why should I have to wait. There is no technical problems.

The delays are frustrating and I'm pretty unhappy that Stripe Japan is doing the same thing to all Japanese accounts.

However from the card processor's standpoint it is risk management. The card processor is extending the store owner credit by allowing the funds to be withdrawn before the customer has received their goods, but this is something that many store owners don't seem to grasp.

If the goods don't arrive, are damaged, or were never shipped to begin with, the customer will open a complaint with the processor (PayPal, Stripe, etc). If the store owner has disappeared or gone bankrupt then it is the credit card processor who will be on the hook for those funds. To mitigate this risk many processors use rolling reserves or payout delays.

PayPal generally only implements these types of things on accounts that have shown a higher degree of risk. However if you open a new PayPal account and try to run $100k of sales through it in a short period of time you will quickly find your account restricted while they ask a lot of questions to make sure your business is legit and that PayPal won't be on the hook for $100k in customer claims.

And especially when different merchants are treated differently depending on where the have the business

Long payout delays by credit card processors are unfortunately very common here in Japan so it doesn't surprise me too much that Stripe is doing the same thing here. Pretty much anyone can open a Stripe account and accept credit card payments and that means there will be more higher risk individuals using their service.

It sucks for me (low risk business owner) but I do understand it from their side as well.

[Havouza]

Most of these brokers cover their losses by different kind of fees, and they do it well it seems. Paypal is one of them and the worst fee is if you get paid in one currency and then either want to pay a supplier in another currency or want to transfer the money to your bank account that is in another currency. No one has as bad exchange rate as Paypal PLUS a fee. The big credit card brokers mainly use the official bank rate Our Swedish broker uses a system where they make a credit check on the buyer for every purchase. It is done without human intervention during the checkout

Fraudulent buyers and sellers have always existed and will always do. It has become easier now with e-shops and credit cards. But the card providers also make it easier. My new bank card uses wireless technique to just be placed close to the machine and your payment is done without even using a pin. Even if the amount is limited It is a dangerous way.

[dynambee]

Most of these brokers cover their losses by different kind of fees, and they do it well it seems. Paypal is one of them and the worst fee is if you get paid in one currency and then either want to pay a supplier in another currency or want to transfer the money to your bank account that is in another currency. No one has as bad exchange rate as Paypal PLUS a fee.

PayPal doesn't charge a separate fee for exchange, at least not here in Japan nor in the USA. The exchange rates they give are terrible though, and that is how they make a lot of money on FX transactions.

Some examples:

Current xe.com TTM midmarket EURUSD rate: 1.11525 Typical bank TTB rate, based on current TTM rate: 1.10525 Current PayPal Rate: 1.08403

Current xe.com TTM midmarket USDJPY rate: 111.561 Typical bank TTB rate, based on current TTM rate: 110.561 Current PayPal Rate: 1.08035

Etcetera. They are not great rates but there are no separate charges. Maybe you guys in Europe get screwed even worse, I'm not sure.

The big credit card brokers mainly use the official bank rate

I've never managed to find a card processor that does this. Most give TTB -1% or -2%, better than PayPal's typical TTB -2.5% but not always a huge difference. Based on Stripe's website they say 2% from TTM, so they're better than PayPal but if you're a high volume PayPal customer you'll get better fee rates with PayPal than Stripe, so it about averages out.

None of this changes anything about using rolling reserves and payment holds for risk management. No credit card processor would stay in business long once it got out that they weren't properly managing their fraud risk.

[Havouza]

You can buy currency with or without a fee. But nothing is free in this world. Without fee means a bad rate, and you are right, Paypal is among the worst.

About the exchange rate. I have solved it in another way. I have three accounts with my bank. Euro USD and GBP. The Swedish business is made in SEK only with a Swedish broker so it is no problem

My Paypal also have the same 3 currencies. So when I transfer money from PP to my bank, I transfer in the same currency as I got paid. If I then need to exchange money, I do it in the bank.