RaptorX Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 You know, I think this has been an achilles hill of Prestashop since day one. They had the potential to become one of the biggest ecommerce platforms out there but how can you be the biggest when little stores struggle with the products? My store just have ~500 products (there are stores with thousands of products) at a given time but boy that is a pain in the ass make ANY kind of editing that has to do with several products at the same time. You were always forced to use a module for that or pay for the prestashop manager and stuff like that. I think this is something that must be done in the core of Thrity Bees, and not just partial editing, I think that to be big any store of any size must be able to grab 500 products and change the prices/category or anything they want without having to rely on external modules to do it. I know this wont be implemented soon because I can tell it might be too big of a job but I have the hope some day this comes to Thirty Bees and makes the way to a definite departure from Prestashop's limitations. This and a freaking mobile app... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marci123 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 @raptorx said in Bulk Editing in Thirty Bees: My store just have ~500 products (there are stores with thousands of products) at a given time but boy that is a pain I used the export products module which enables me to export all existing products in a csv file which is in the right format for being re-imported again. Then I can make any changes in the csv file and reimport them. https://oavea.com/free-prestashop-modules/2-export-products-free-prestashop-module.html I haven't tried it with 30bz though. But maybe this could be a solution for you too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorX Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 @marci123 I do have my work arounds for this issue, my point is that the platform itself should be able to handle this so as to be more appealing to users... Say for example Shopify, is a semi decent platform that has several things pat down as easy variant/combination creation: or for mass editing like this: If we want Thirty Bees to be big then we have to have the basics covered... this ease of use is what we are compiting against (even if we dont realize we are compiting this is whats going on) If we cant have this the user base will never grow as fast as it could which is what happened to Prestashop... great potential but didnt want to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marci123 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 @raptorx said in Bulk Editing in Thirty Bees: Say for example Shopify, is a semi decent platform that has several things pat down as easy variant/combination creation: What about the combinations generator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorX Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 @marci123 yeah I am forced to go to the attribute generation tool and feature generation tool before that even being half useful because I cant add attributes with values on the fly as shown in my previous post. And I mean half useful because if i create an attribute named color with say 200 colors and then find out that my new products that come this week have 2 colors then guess what I have to do? I have to go and create another attribute named "secondary color" for example and then manually type the 200 colors again... No option to duplicate attributes, no option to import (unless you do the hack with the combinations) and so on.... In short Not easy to edit multiple things quickly. My point is I shouldn't have to use import hacks, modules or additional tools when managing products... Those things should be right there. Just click a product, go to combinations and add or delete or modify as many as I want right the in THAT product... Or say select multiple products that have similar products and just select them and add combinations that will have same color names just for those selected products... Those things are hard to code but would mean the difference between a good product and an awesome product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorX Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 https://forum.thirtybees.com/topic/931/reopened-how-to-use-csv-import-for-many-colors-sizes-for-a-single-product/21 This is the perfect example of what should not happen on any store but due to Prestashop's limitations, TB will have to deal with it. This should be as easy as: I have a product with a bunch of combinations? No problem... Just create the product and in combinations just say: the colors are these, sizes are these and... Done... That guy has to deal with excel csv and lists when he said he had never used those (and why should he?)... The platform should make it easy for the merchant to add and manage a lot of products with ease not force them to hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marci123 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Ah ok, I understand. I haven't dealt with so many combinations yet but I can see that there is room for improvements if such a number of variations is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaoKakao Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 @raptorx said in Bulk Editing in Thirty Bees: This is the perfect example of what should not happen on any store but due to Prestashop’s limitations, TB will have to deal with it. C'mon! Finally, everything has been set up. It took not more than 20min. The problem was with extreme flexibility of openoftice export and TB/PS import procedure. There's no tool 100% robust for human factor. For newbies and/or ordinary users it is always difficult to avoid mistakes. Even more - they better should make all possible mistakes, so it will give them strong knowledge how to handle with difficulties in a future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaoKakao Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 @raptorx just to develop your idea to its logical end: it would be ideal to have something like a "store manager for prestashop", but bundled with TB, free of charge and opensource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorX Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 @daokakao seems like my point is not getting across, according to you it "took no more than" 20mins but remember that was just one product. My point is it can be done in 5 minutes, there are platforms out there that can do that and if TB wants to be different than PS it should notice those shortcomings. Just 20min... Imagine 20 minutes for 1000 products... Heck I read a guy with a "small Prestashop store" of just 13,000 products. I feel that what I'm saying is a legitimate issue for some people... Note that I am migrating away from Shopify to TB but that means I can compare the two closely and I can tell you the process that took me a few days in TB took only 3-4 hours in Shopify because I didn't have to scavenge for modules or forum posts (like the above) for an answer to something that should be intuitive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmer-media Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 @raptorx I have no problems with the combinations. I get the data from my wholesalers via CSV and use these mostly with Excel. For this, the work is easier with the formulas and the further processing as eg with OpenOffice etc. Most of this is very fast. And for more than one shop. Watches and jewelery shop, fashion shop, pet shop etc. I do not know where you get your data and what you make of it. with more than 13.000 products you have certainly not these manually entered into the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmer-media Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 And I think for bulk editing, Prestools is very nice tool. For the first import it is a little work for CSV import or combination generator. For me, it's a difference to create new products (import or manuell) and bulk editing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmer-media Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 supplement: When CSV is imported, the variant values are automatically added to the variant group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaoKakao Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 @raptorx Perhaps, i didn't explained clear. 20 minutes are spent for finding out what's wrong with csv import in that specific case. This isn't caused by problem of software or software design. Anyway, @zimmer-media already explained a lot of what i wanted to say. I see a significant bottleneck: images. Due to sophisticated caching system it is impossible to make bulk insert/upload images onto site. That's why tool like "Store manager for prestashop" is a killer-feature - it significantly eases bulk image upload process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moy2010 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 @musicmaster posted a module for mass-editing a few days ago here: https://forum.thirtybees.com/topic/925/prestools-the-mass-edit-toolset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorX Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 yeah but i guess most of you are missing the point: CSV Import which has to be edited in Excel, Musicmaster's module, Prestools... There's a TON of people who would just say: dude Im just a guy who runs a small web store I just want to enter to Thirty Bees and add the products and edit them. @DaoKakao perhaps the concept of spending 20 minutes for finding out what is wrong with an import is exactly what I say that is completely unnecessary... You shouldnt have to do that. Other platforms know that. Other platforms are ahead of PS and TB on that regard but suck on others... TB should step up the game on that area because as it currently stands is not the best in my opinion. And if it needs inspiration it should look at the other platforms that are doing it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorX Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 My point is: There is an area of TB that can be improved and I am providing examples of platforms that already do something that is simpler than TB so we can get inspiration from those that do it better. You guys keep presenting me with workarounds and tools that while being great is not the same as being done in the main software as it should be. Edit: This is an example of why tools and modules are not the best solution: One has to talk to the developer of the module/tool if something is not working just to find out that the newest version of the shop made changes and they broke compatibility. If TB doesnt have to rely on modules to do things that should be done natively this types of problms would be less common and quicker to resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marci123 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 @RaptorX I understand what you mean. But it could create problems if 30bz becomes too different from PS. Many other modules that were developed for PS may not be compatible anymore. And many rely on being able to use their PS modules. Beside this I can imagine that it would need a lot more of developers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30knees Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I have to agree with RaptorX's main point: ``` You guys keep presenting me with workarounds and tools that while being great is not the same as being done in the main software as it should be. If TB doesnt have to rely on modules to do things that should be done natively this types of problms would be less common and quicker to resolve. ``` A shop should be as easy as possible. Maybe currently we'd break compatibility with PS 1.6, but eventually that is going to happen and then there is no real reason anymore why tb shouldn't adopt the best solutions other shops have developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaoKakao Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Has anyone, who say things like 'software a must have the feature b', ever payed attention on economic aspect of that 'user-oriented killer-featues'? IMHO, it is very simple: the dev.team would not pay much time for such feature if it is possible to easily make needed thing up without such feature. This is exactly match with the bulk editing: now we have all needed to implement bulk editing without extra coding: the spreadsheets and the import module. For those who can't live without bulk editing builtin the TB there are some thirdparty modules. Period. Any extra works of devteam on new functionality of this area is not profitable in any meaning. So, do your own conclusion. UPD: another way to add desired functions by crowdfunding. @vincentdenkspel already took part in organisation of such project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorX Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 @marci123 I do understand that but at some point PS and Thrity bees will have to part ways... I am not saying we should do this NOW but i think at some point in time it would be a necesity. @daokakao I get that, but any smart person should look at it like this: the more people like our platform, the easiest is for us to make money with it at some point. Right now I have to buy Prestools to do very basic stuff that any platform that deals with multiple items should do already, if you want me to manage hundreds of products on your platform, might as well help me do it. Regarding the economics I REALLY hope that Thirty Bees find a different approach to monetization because the way PS handled that is exactly the reason why they went down the toilet. This pay for modules thing is what made it so that they crippled PS on each release so that you have to buy more modules... I mean, there can be a module market but TB should not modify the core to make people pay more which is what PS was doing (at least thats how it looked like) and that's the reason PS and TB by extension dont handle basic multi editing operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaoKakao Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 @raptorx said in Bulk Editing in Thirty Bees: I get that, but any smart person should look at it like this: the more people like our platform, the easiest is for us to make money with it at some point. So, usually such smart person takes the things in his/her hands and does. What stops you from organizing new (sub)project? Here, on the forum, we can see the excellent example of crowdfunding project organization (elasticsearch). I really don't have any sort of experience in organizing it. Why don't you try to start it (as any smart person)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmer-media Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 @raptorx Whether I have now understood everything with my bad English skills, hmmm. I personally think that your ideas are ok, but for a shop system like TB is available free of charge is a difference to sellers like Shopifiy & co. With these sales platforms you have to pay your fees and are usually also somewhat restricted. With TB you have possibilities which you in the sales platforms are not even available at an extra charge. These surcharges are usually paid monthly and not once. If the standard features are not sufficient for TB, then you buy additional modules and the purchase price is unique (provider-dependent). I could certainly now enumerate one or the other argument, one must know what one wants in the long run. I am not sure what you are trying to do with this topic, but even a small online shop with under 100 products can be more effective with TB than the monthly sales platforms with their fees. My change from PS to TB was among other things the existing bugs to eliminate. Since the contributors so far have done good work and continue to work on it. GGF should your topic better as a request at https://thirtybees.com/feature-request/. Sorry for my bad english today :rolling_eyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmer-media Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 addendum: Your example picture Bulk Editor of Shopify, so I could start absolutely absolutely nothing. Every product in my shops has its own article number and the variant anyway. How could I keep this apart when I search for the item number and all have the same number. The bulk editor from this sample picture with the price update is equally meaningless for me. Items with variants have different prices for me, but I have to make sure that the basic price per unit is adjusted for some products. Also color differences etc can have different prices. If I would simply pull it down like in the picture cut, I would come to Devil's kitchen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorX Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 @daokakao I think that is a very good idea too. But I think modifying certain parts of the project require a green light by administrators/developers who are in charge of TB. I am not sure if I can go changing somethings and say: "here.. Merge it" I am trying to raise awareness to this situation: nobody in their right mind would add or edit 1500 products directly in TB... Everybody would say: export products, edit on Excel, import again... Or: here is a nice module, use that... (just as they did in this post) which clearly indicates there is a problem in how TB and Prestashop handle products in general... Actually the fact that Prestashop at least tried to tackle that in 1.7 (unsuccessfully) means that they noticed what I'm talking about too. :) I will really try to fix this part but that totally depends on what is allowed by the people actually running TB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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