PayPal will no longer refund you the fees from a return effective October 11, 2019

[dynambee]

Quote

Earlier this year, we notified you that we were updating our User Agreement to change our refund policy. We want to let you know that the policy change is going into effect beginning on October 11, 2019.

In line with industry practice and according to our updated policy, we will not charge a fee to process refunds, but the fees from the original transaction will not be returned. This policy will not apply to duplicate transactions, voids and most disputed transactions. You can review the PayPal User Agreement for more information on our return policies.

We only adjust our policies when we are confident the changes are fair and aligned with the value that our services provide to your business.

PayPal brings you more than just payment processing – your business has access to our platform’s full suite of tools, products and support built to scale with you, such as customized invoicing to help you get paid sooner, access to business loans, world class fraud monitoring, seller protection for eligible transactions, and business services designed to simplify your day-to-day operations.

PayPal invests in bringing you buyers – with over 268 million active account holders worldwide, PayPal works hard for your business to make sure we continue to bring your buyers the shopping experiences they have grown to associate with our brand. PayPal is the most-used digital wallet** and PayPal shoppers complete their checkout 88% of the time on average, helping you close more sales.+

If you have questions about any of these changes or your account, please don’t hesitate to get in touch with us.

Thank you for being a PayPal customer. We appreciate your business and look forward to continuing to help you grow and succeed in the future.

The team at PayPal

Title and email content quote shamelessly lifted from this /r/eBay thread on Reddit. Emails seem to be going out to all PayPal customers currently, if you haven't received one yet you likely will soon.

It seems Stripe has this same policy, no fee refunds for refunded payments.

So, what payment processor should be used that doesn't rip off the website owner? Who's using what and are you happy with it?

Edited September 19, 2019 by dynambee
eBay -> /r/eBay

[lesley]

As far as I am aware all qualified gateways refund fees. But I did get that message the other day. https://epl.paypal-communication.com/H/2/v40000016d46c357c0a5b9916e966f4758/a25592af-e4e0-49a5-b52e-038ad5edcbe0/HTML

 

 

[haylau]

I don't think Stripe refund fees. I thought it was just PayPal

So in the EU now. A customer purchases aan item includng shipping from us for £10. From this £10 we pay shipping cost £1, and Stripe / PayPal fees say 20p + 3% so, 50p (not even considering our monthly fees)

So we make £8.50

Customer asks for a return / refund. We have to accept, no questions asked. We have to give them the full £10 back, but we loose outgoing shipping fees and now the gateway fees also. So we are out of pocket £1.50. Wonderful.

I don;t think not refunding the fees is a rip off (but it is disappointing) because why should they offer their service for free? In a  payment / refund you have use PayPal systems twice, why should they not be paid for that service?

[lesley]

I personally disagree. Its part of the higher rate. You pay 3% because you use a non qualified gateway. Using a qualified gateway you can get away with 1.3% if your volume is enough. So you are paying a premium for paypal and stripe already. 

[haylau]

20 minutes ago, lesley said:

I personally disagree. Its part of the higher rate. You pay 3% because you use a non qualified gateway. Using a qualified gateway you can get away with 1.3% if your volume is enough. So you are paying a premium for paypal and stripe already. 

We pay less than 3%, I was making the maths easy, I was more pointing out that online sellers are always losing out on returns. We loose money, pure and simple. And also we do not like giving our products services away for free so why should PayPal? I would like them to of course, Just opinions

[dynambee]

5 hours ago, haylau said:

I don;t think not refunding the fees is a rip off (but it is disappointing) because why should they offer their service for free? In a  payment / refund you have use PayPal systems twice, why should they not be paid for that service?

PayPal gets that fee back from the gateways they process payments through and until now they have also refunded the fees back to the merchant. Now they want to start pocketing that fee. It's a very underhanded & greedy money grab. 

Your refund analogy is looking at things backwards, IMO. When you get a customer complaint the customer sends the product back to you and you refund their payment. PayPal is doing the same thing, except instead of refunding the money you paid them they're just pocketing it. "Heads I win, tails you lose."

[Factor]

I am sure Square will change their policy soon.  Currently they still refund fees.  However they posted on the website they were having really high use and call volume.  Wonder why?

Greed is old news. I actually expect it.  Not that I condone it. Especially when companies get “big” and lots of users.  They start seeing math different if we just add up all the refund fees.  Wow what’s that number?  It’s like ATT, cable, utility company and on and on. 

Wonder when Square will change?

[shoptechmedia]

Now that is what we call underhanded move.. trying to pocket someone else's money.. something has got to give.. aside from freezing accounts like they did  mine 12 years ago, I never got back my hard earned money.. it's not hard to imagine them loosing users..

Edited September 20, 2019 by shoptechmedia

[dynambee]

49 minutes ago, Factor said:

Greed is old news. I actually expect it.  Not that I condone it. Especially when companies get “big” and lots of users.  They start seeing math different if we just add up all the refund fees.  Wow what’s that number?  It’s like ATT, cable, utility company and on and on. 

You should expect more from service providers. We should all demand more from service providers.

We all know the US will never effectively regulate these companies but hopefully the EU will step in and put a stop to this sort of predatory practice.

[Factor]

4 minutes ago, dynambee said:

We all know the US

Greed is not a USA thing only.  You can’t regulate immoral behavior.   The climate will change based on what the market (the consumer) can bare.  So if people leave PayPal they get the message.  If they don’t they keep stealing. 

Also I wouldn’t count on governments to do anything of real substance. It’s based on the collective people.  Which goes back to who all cares and actually does something. 

In general are you canceling your account?  The answer should be yes. 

[dynambee]

3 minutes ago, Factor said:

Greed is not a USA thing only.

Allowing companies to run rampant with little to no regulation is very much a USA thing. It's what lead to the global financial crisis, for example, and the continuing lack of bank regulation in the US will probably result in another similar crisis in the not too distant future. Generally a complete lack of corporate regulation is the domain of developing or mostly undeveloped countries, the US is a bad exception.

 

4 minutes ago, Factor said:

You can’t regulate immoral behavior.

Of course you can. Look at the EU privacy laws that are being enforced globally and have caused global changes in corporate behavior. That is regulating immoral behavior.

 

5 minutes ago, Factor said:

Also I wouldn’t count on governments to do anything of real substance.

I don't expect the US government to do anything because in the US large companies straight-up bribe politicians to make sure things go their way. The US golden rule has become "He who has the gold makes the rules." It's fantastic if you're already extremely wealthy and completely unreasonable for anyone & everyone else.

 

6 minutes ago, Factor said:

In general are you canceling your account?  The answer should be yes. 

Yes, that is the plan. I had thought Stripe might be a good (though perhaps temporary) alternative but since they do the same thing as what PayPal is trying to do they are obviously a no-go. I will work on finding other options but here in Japan credit cards are not as commonly used and getting a credit card processor as a small business is still challenging. If at all possible I will find a way to not use PayPal though.

 

[Factor]

22 minutes ago, dynambee said:

You should expect more

Also you know I agree with you.  I am not talking about my expectations. I am talking about greed and reality.   You always have order and chaos. Good and evil. It what we do with those feelings that make difference.