Mark

Well that's Prestashop's position and that position might very well be what creates multiple opportunity for TB. Although the advanced needs are diverse for merchants there's two points to make about that: 1. Creating a solid infrastructure that works well for most could set TB apart. Prestashop have given up and others don't really compete. Bugs exist but not so many that it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to get on top of and then push TB as being leaders in this area. 2. TB can then build modules that cater to different needs providing the business case stacks up. For me the warehousing and admin is key and I'd certainly be up for having a solid foundation then more a advanced warehousing module on top.

I have mentioned many things in here of substance, ideas and pathways for improvement. I have reported bugs, including terminal bugs and critical improvement. For months we've had virtually nothing fixed. I no longer mention things because they get ignored and there's no proper funnel for fixing things. I've offered to help in that process, I've put forward ideas. Datakick agreed this was good then went silent when we started to get into detail. The biggest problem is that there's zero network with module developers. Modules are set to die and there's no coming back from that. Modules will slowly stop working and there will be no alternative solution. Datakick was clear in his "we're all moving ahead" post that this was a big thing.... And yet nothing much has happened that I can see. Getting module developers to build to TB's lonely but good direction is a big ask of them especially with such few merchants on here and those that are backward thinking stay where we are don't upset anyone homeboys. Smile should have been dedicated to that issue and making that happen. It's been probably at least 18 months since I mentioned there was a terminal problem with the affiliate process for example. Datakick fixed one bit of the problem, then noone tested anything and still the process still doesn't work and there's been zero response to getting this fixed properly. I've mentioned multiple times about focussing on Warehousing and Advanced Stock Management where TB has a great opportunity to do good and really shine. No-one has even looked at that entire area. Probably most merchants use TB to list a few things on a website and it does almost nothing and they don't pay because its fairly useless. There's no process for building and helping small merchants grow their businesses. There's very little integration with marketing selling systems in social media . There's onerous and unnecessary complication for onboarding customers who cannot be bothered with all the drama and working with things that aren't super easy and quick and very easy to comprehend. People like me who have suggestions for change get roasted by backward thinking haters who just want me to eff off so they can slop about in their mediocrity.

Totally. Correct. I was interested in being involved in the ownership of this. But it ended up with just Smile. Ideas take a lot more than just flicking money to the primary developer. They need plans, commercial nous, infrastructure, money, team and determination... and involving the right people in its success.

I did have big ideas on where TB could go yes and I decided to use TB based on the fact it would have a great future. I can't see it surviving at all now. There's no one supporting its ecosystem and only a few merchants passionate about it now and I can see merchants are viewed with dark resentment by the old guard. It's been too inbred, arrogant and gutless, backward thinking, and incapable of the challenging talks, just people who want their egos stroked. I think Lesley did it no favours, and has probably left Smile with nothing much to work with. I still use it until I've extracted myself from it but I wouldn't recommend others do unless they want to be stuck with nowhere to go with it.

The owner pays the costs of any business, and then he charges revenue to cover that. How difficult is that to understand? He only gets revenue if 1/ People pay it and 2/ He asks for it. And no I dont think open source equals free lunch, Ive been talking about the many ways to do this properly and make it an actual business with people working on it and getting rewarded, including the owner... and making it a kick butt website that addresses a big opportunity in the market.... By developing key functions that are in demand, fixing things properly, building a decent commercial proposition and taking it to the market. Currently is like a few little niggly old ladies selling balls of wool between themselves at a craft fair on a Saturday morning. The know lots about how to knit but nothing about how to market it. I gave you a lot more credit @wakabayashi and have supported your ideas... Ive put forward not unrelated ideas and concepts too and I'm surprised at your low level of commercial understanding of IT projects like this and how to make them really do good things for people instead of being the derelict standalone it will be, with no module builders interested in this thing, no matter how good its technical base is... because they want to make money... and to do that they need a setup that works commercially for everyone... not just technically

I'm surprised at that little tanty @wakabayashi but I get that it's beat up on Mark time so I'll reply. I've stated my ideas a few times on here, just not in that section. I'm not ranting about there being no business logic for charging merchants... There's literally no business logic whatsoever for charging merchants to use the platform. I didnt say core Devs did I, I said Devs. There should be guys on this project being rewarded for the build, and not just Datakick. My comment about Traumflug were in relation to him demanding that individual merchants pay for code to get fixed. So much stupidity. Other than that he's working on Merchants Edition which seems to be competition for TB but I have no other idea about who does what and I certainly don't have anything against the guy personally. This is about TB and what a disaster it's heading towards for all merchants and Smile who has the misfortune to own this pup.

It's certainly true I stopped donating to TB a few months after using it because I saw that there was no proper and transparent process for dealing with development and bugs. Since then I've given up on having anything to do with suggesting fixes other than glaringly obvious ones that are terminal and still are. I've said several times that I have no doubt Smile is a nice guy. Everyone is capable of being nice, including me. I'm deliberately trying not to be nice here. I'm trying on purpose to be brutal because I honestly believe brutal is necessary in order for TB to be the force it's capable of being. It is possible that I have totally misjudged this and actually people don't want it to be a force. I know full well that people will strongly dislike me for doing so and yet I do it anyway because I think someone has to do it. The reason I signed up to TB in the first place was because I liked the ethos and concept behind what TB was trying to do and the solid approach to technical robustness. However it's soul destroying to me that TB is dying because it doesn't do things smartly and think properly about outcomes for merchants and instead there's resentment against merchants and zero communication with them. TB is set to exist entirely on its lonesome without module developers or merchants. There seems to no interest in the commercial side of it and building the networks of support. Most of us will end up with non functional modules as TB wanders off into obscurity with no interest from module developers in making anything compatible with TB. Probably I'm not alone in having to ditch TB for multiple reasons and start again with a smarter bunch of guys. The Devs are mad because there isn't much/any money for them and we've got traumflug talking nonsense about how individual merchants should pay bills to get code patched up. I really feel sorry for the Devs that they face this level of managerial incompetence. There's so much that's commercially terrible about the whole structure of this operation and you Lesley set it up this way. Yes I could and should have paid more than 20 or 30 bucks. All merchants that turn revenue should contribute to it, but you didn't build any of this functionality and business logic into the platform so don't point the finger of blame at merchants for using it for free.

By putting a whole range of solutions on the table I've been entirely constructive but because people here don't like challenge from me and don't comprehend anything much to do with commercial sense or success for project they try to get personal. It has definitely shown me that there is not enough capability here for this to succeed. It's certainly being run and worked on by tragic figures. The problem here is that I've always believed in Datakick and stuck with this bunch of people on that basis. He doesn't seem to be around much anymore so now I'm working on unraveling myself from this fail and getting in with a bunch of guys that know what they are doing

These were all positive comments on how to do things properly. How old are you? 12? Put up arguments of substance not just hurl things out of your cot and scream and cry like a baby.

I'm putting this forward as a discussion on how a project like TB should be run,: At present TB is an autocracy managed by 1 person and only that guy knows what's going on and he believes that as billpayer it's all about him. According to him we Merchants will sit in the corner and await His rulings on what is to happen. That's the single worst way to run any software project. Getting people's buy in and involvement and input is the only way these things work. Everyone has a vested interest in TB and that needs to be respected. We should be not at this guys whim, where progress over months is measured by half millimetre amounts and where nothing is disclosed. 1. Democracy not Autocracy. Get feedback from everyone in the ecosystem about what does and doesn't work. Merchants, Devs, End customers, Module builders etc. This should be a key feature in the site that's mandatory and core and without it, operations are limited. To start with its manual and that's partly replaced according to merchant taste by automatic feedback over time. 2. Set up the company properly with targets, ethos and clearly stated based on all the feedback and NOT as one person's cloak and dagger secret ambition. Visibility of what's going on is available at different levels... 1/ stakeholders 2/ merchants 3/ the public. 3. People who contribute on the project get rewarded and are stakeholders. Tasks are set a financial figure and when they are completed those who did the task receive shares or cash to a value related to that tasks value. 4. Tasks are set by several processes involving the entire ecosystem having a vote on each based on technicals, commercial value to merchants, and priority amongst other things. A small committee representing both technology and commercial decides the actual priority. 4. Almost certainly the feedback will involve charging merchants and how to charge. We build a transparent business model from this. 5. Read "Slicing The Pie" a very simple concept as to how to reward people for what they do. This can be done by time they put in or value created by what they do and paid out in shares or cash appropriately.

I agree with you @wakabayashi that there's misunderstandings all round. Devs will be definitely getting frustrated with merchants not paying and contributing to thirtybees, working and getting nowhere. Merchants are frustrated that there's nothing much happening and yet plenty to do and bugs to fix. There's not a proper mechanism by which merchants pay, it's still some half assed donation thing. I suspect Smile is working on this but who would seriously know what's going on.. Merchants should certainly be paying in a tiered approach, starting at free. Personally I think that the Devs who contribute in a meaningful way should also have a stake in this business and not be getting nothing but thanks for what they do. The problem is management and ego. It's always been TB's weakness. And it could very easily kill TB. Which would be bloody sad because a lot of hard work and passion has gone into it, for it to only go backwards in the market.

@wakabayashi im well aware of everyone's desire to not upset anyone and be as PC as possible and all support and gather around the bill payer and cocoon him in condolences of having someone challenge him However this is about the way this being run as a secret squirrel project that does not involve input from merchants and just running things the way he personally would like things done because he's paying the bills. Time is long overdue to get professional and build this platform into something powerful. I know exactly what you mean by "what am I doing to help". I'm not a coder. I have offered to help with key aspects of managing the process pathway and project, and datakick responded to that positively and further steps were taken and then abruptly everything stopped so I presume Smile stopped that. The only other thing I can do other than contribute requirements and ideas is to pay. Unless this project starts getting run professionally and democratically and not by force or authoritarian dictatorship I'm not paying (I used to pay).

"wait and see where we will go" @Smile Seriously it's getting more ridiculous by the minute. No code updates for so long, is datakick even still there? Bugs not being properly fixed. No serious commitments to anything other than spying on merchants. This is going to die. We've all been untold patient for so long and there's no plans STILL. No communication, zip A great opportunity to do something great is going begging. Gradually TB will just be isolated with no serious module developers interested in keeping compatible.

@datakick when will modules/trackingfront/stats.php be fixed and this affiliate tracking finally fixed?

Look at this whiney low level desperate stuff. Seriously. I'm sure he's a nice guy with a great career in customer service but we can't have someone like this solely in charge of owning a serious ecommerce platform. He's made money through being a pleaser and good on him, but we need someone with kahunas and vision who will work tirelessly on building the development and module ecosystem and focus on merchant needs. You've got @Traumflug

Thirtybees has always been a cute geek chitchat project talking about code. That's certainly important but it's just going to be a dead end as far as I can see because the big picture of building this to be world leading project including a dedicated team of module builders is just never going to happen. This guy Smile either has no vision or he keeps everything to himself, neither of which is going to work for him or anyone else. It will only ever be this cute geek project unless someone serious with some credibility, vision and money comes along very soon and stamps some clear goals on this project. I have many Prestashop modules none of which are going to work shortly as tb wanders off like a lonely elderly goat towards its death. Years go by waiting for something serious to happen but it never does and probably never will.

Works great, Note: In the "Add extra css to your pages" section

Yep happy there's no guarantees.... Just looking for a way to ascertain quickly what the incompatibilities are. I do realise this would be quite hard to get right. Maybe Developers could test their module in the framework. Or maybe pay some nominal fee to have a tb dev test it or some other arrangement. Then there's a report and the report details any incompatibilities. The Dev can either fix them or just advise the incompatibilities exist or may exist and leave it at that. The idea of having a testing bench for modules sounds good to me with some sort of stamp of approval. Also a way of us reporting tb module incompatibilities back to the Dev so others can see about these and the Dev can advise a solution.

I'm not a developer but I'd like to know what's involved in "tweaking" modules from various presta modules to work with TB and then being confident they will continue to do so. I don't know if the tweaks are minor or involve considerable time but what I can say is that on my list of concerns this rates highly. Most Devs haven't heard of or won't work with TB and so a crucial service for me is some sort of compatibility service between Presta modules and TB, before I even buy them. If there was one thing I would love for Tb to have it would be a place where I or developers could upload their code and be told immediately of the compatibility issues @datakick@

Im wanting to press ahead with getting different PS modules, however I dont know how compatible these will be with TB in future as TB appears to be going off in its own direction and may not be fully compatible with PS1.6 and 1.7modules. I need to understand at what point will these 1.6/1.7 modules become incompatible with TB. Need some element of certainty and guidlines around what to do as TB and presta go off in different directions and become less compatible.

@datakick Although there's no longer a fatal error when trying to register a new referral.... 1/ Its not capturing click data even though I think Ive ticked all the options correctly in the Data Mining module. (For Request URI /include Ive added "mark" but clicking a product page/ ?%mark or ?mark does not count clicks 2/ When I try to login into the affiliate tracking at modules/trackingfront/stats.php , Authentication fails.

I tried and it worked. But then I used a third party module that adds Features and I was unable to add features that I has selected in the Product Features menu as being "Multi". They were there to be selected, but I couldn't add them

Thanks @SLiCK_303 I'd been using 1.2

Sorry... Ive only just logged in here now. OK so, this is an important first thing "any other user" .... Does this mean the public, users or clients of our sites, merchants, third party devs, admin etc. And how will they authenticate as being as such, or do we not get that fancy and we dont authenticate at this point? If we are gonna authenticate we will need something in core that will authenticate them and enable the submission. Or do we just ask them the question-- do we just ask them upon registering who they are and we just take that as accepted.

I havent seen any Core Updates in a very long time @datakick are you sure Core Updater working ok?