Mark

@datakick Ok I will try to be of some use here and try to take up minimal time of yours doing so, investigating and perhaps implementing with maybe others who are also involved in the decision and project management process. That's if you would like me try and do so. Key part of this would be sorting out the process for reporting ideas, bugs and feature requests to go through one process by multiple types of users (website users, staff, owners, tb, tb community each with their own permissions, process ) and in place. Another key part would be knowing how's it's already done and then collating all the existing info into a new process. Perhaps let me... or whoever else you want to do this... to know any other requirements as to how you want this done.

@datakick I get why its important to not make all plans publically available, but site owners are trying to manage their businesses and part of that is what TB plans are. Im sure I'm not the only one planning things that are a bit dependant on TB capabilities and functions. Also its good to see where people's ideas and feature requests are at in the pipeline. (Bugs not so much thats more of a github level thing). Most companies provide some visibility over project planning to at least some of their interested users. Businesses being told nothing about what's coming up tend to lose interest over the uncertainty... as they can do if they have no input and can see where the ideas and feature requests slot in (or not) into the overall program. Maybe consider giving slightly wider access to the project plan. its not secret squirrel where decisions can made behind closed doors by just you (surely?). Is it a democracy or Datakick's autocracy?

Where can we see a medium to high level project plan of whats planned plus ideas and suggestions to a medium to high level of whats going on with thirtybees? (Not github)- I mean a project plan with dates and deliverables to a medium to high level.

On my other site on Niara the price and the reference updated when a different combination item was selected and also I could scroll through a product's pic. Its probably just a setting but right now I cant find it... Price doesnt change between combinations, reference doesnt update and the prod pics dont scroll. Anyone know the magic button? The two prices above should be different, as they were on my old site.

Markus's site interestingly says "The currently most asked question is: how can I upgrade to Merchant’s Edition? Well, currently one can’t. And that’s going to change before too long. Core Updater is an excellent tool for upgrading between thirty bees releases, it’ll be extended to allow also upgrading to Merchant’s Edition." I presume this means that by Thirty Bees allowing Merchants Edition to become an option in Core Updater, that Markus is still contributing code to the whole concept of TB/ ME and not just ME. Am I right?

Correct I don't think it has anything to do with PHP or any thirtybees file at this stage. Back door access seems to have come through a file called home/waso.php, which I believe is a wordpress file. They changed permissions and altered and added some other files Inc php.ini and htaccess I'll remove this post shortly @datakick as I've subsequently discovered it's not related to thirtybees.

Google has taken down my site saying it's infected with malware after some hack. Should be easy enough to remove the virus but how do I prevent this from happening again, how to do I check if it's infiltrated code or database. How do I understand how they did it? Heres the details as reported by Google /vx/Office/asd/ScriptResource.axd?d=KozZrTVT8ndoIojtkc7ps-zrkEG427bomy-mzEko1QrwRvKEBPnBH-eEBG-fwBgYq7vo370eJLLGk7WUP2b7mI8TDWlp_qYPfXW_5pbAQZLH8_PPmuRYZViI-z0367-tVCsNT-4DayceIpClEr2xh51rkJ0nz9Zws1FVvy1dbq41&t=ffffffffab5b37cd vx/Office/asd/ScriptResource.axd?d=P9Sp2kK_d4BNWXJEemNdILK9AkaZTG86MaHXVWE9ulLLVoOV2_uW1v0US-bX7dmgAnCfaQZZr5Xs_PMb2qlY_PZzJWUXIvFhdqwbDETknzEmfBkVtnOHt2UrW1fhYKSvnNu6LRTwvwsd5-_je6Walguw52MlxQXzYUZD9J954ItjszBMdOwHNUoRr-iIqIr00&t=545ba255 /vx/Office/asd/ScriptResource.axd?d=YfbPqEYj0W31Qd6b83PGlWON7nZi7y2471DNsdTWssElkCGzwOy2JjZMN6Q2J0CxzcQQMZxoFp-M9jgIk2__cRVfgn6cWZ7Z_b9bpoSJ9398HB6BkZgWc5aKYHnJsU-BmVVRY4UUCV5Fic6Gmpm_oZLb8Buaqp86-tiOy7lm8vuLYoTaNPLJWb1IMmHTO7uG0&t=545ba255

Yes that's obviously a key thing to be certain of, thanks @datakick Lots of things to be very careful of, such as ensuring warehouse zones and address data matches matching carrier zones and addresses also. Also ensuring that warehouse tick boxes are ticked in the Warehouse tab in products. (those boxes shouldnt really exist, just another thing to go wrong). In my case I had to totally disable ASM as something had gone wrong. That solved the immediate problem but then restablishing ASM had to be done product by product but now its ok. Warehousing is extremely delicate at the moment it works mostly though, but its looking forward to a lot more robustness later.

Yes,I decided to completely rejig the zone structure to better arrange carriers Then it got messy and I ended up disabling ASM and then the site till I could sort it out. The big thing I learned was ... that if you deactivate ASM, it has to be reactivated again, product by product....... So Im doing that now, should be ok after that.

Right now no product works with any carrier, I have the infamous "No Carrier Available" message. Ive tried: Creating a simple test product with a simple carrier that all is available to all zones. Nothing. Turning ASM on and off and Disabling and Re-enabling carriers. Ive tried debug and advanced debug mode and Ive tried With/ Without Stock Management Under Modules/ Payment all carriers are selected

Im not giving up yet Smile, but its a tough business this and you have to go in with eyes wide open and be prepared to fight to win and do things bold and smart. Because of Datakick Im still backing thirtybees for now, but there's a lot to be done to "succeed" and make a good return for yourself. It'll be unlikely I'll be putting money in until I see you are playing to win and the idea of spending months and months languishing about waiting for lawyers to cross t's and dot i's and during that time having no concrete business plans is something you swear to god you will never do again. I hope it was well noted what @wakabayashiwas saying and there's a serious plan soon in terms of product and business model.

I'm with @wakabayashi his detailed and considered thoughts and views are important here. It sounds to me like a really nice and slightly gullible guy has bought thirtybees, but far too casual, not innovative or driven or hard out and professional and determined. It's probable that once the money has gone to Datakick and the shine worn off for Smile we will back in the same situation as now. This doesn't yet sound like a good environment for others to invest money to make it big winning formula, just something to throw loose change at to mitigate loss for Smile. It sounds naive so far, but it's possible Datakick could pull a rabbit out of the hat and save Smile's butt as he did with Lesley and build something more awesome as long as Smile just keeps out of the way and let's Datakick do stuff we users want done.

I like where you are coming from @wakabayashi Most people know that to make good money online you give good quality away free. At first. Then as people see where you are coming from and begin to love/need you they start paying, and paying for a long time if they get a good experience and "everything" works. Virtually no money will be made at all if TB or whatever the new brand is, starts charging from the outset for open source that isnt even possible to charge for under the license. If no money is made, TB/whatever will die. Again. and again we will all be left with nowhere to go. We need to encourage free users, no donations/ poor me stuff. They should be allowed the minimum of upgrades, essential only and very slow support. There should be a hosted version, which users pay for after about a 2 week trial. Modules need to be paid for in much the same way Datakick and many others do things, bundled together with time expiry and limited functionality to encourage trial, trust and results. If a module gets results, TB certainly should be charging. I do realise that knowing if something got a result does mean we have to extract performance data. The modules shoud be tracking their own performance and reporting back anonymously. "Self improving" software is important. We need to systematically check to see whats not working for people and suggest solutions, in ways that do not cross privacy lines. I like a credit system whereby people earn credit by either buying it or through things they do to help out to help the ecosystem grow. Performing modules can therefore cost users in credit as opposed to hard cash (as first). Just some ideas

Im hanging in there awaiting news and concrete plans before I decide whether to give up. I have some faith in the technical skills that are here, but not necessarily the determination, vision, commitment, management that keeps the technical skills challenged and compensated. If TB wants users then in my mind its going to have to continue to provide the core code base at no charge as is present, but make money from updates, support and modules. Im waiting for some serious effort to take place in advanced stock management in particular, but also speed of user onboarding, and social media and marketing integration. as well as many other 3rd party integrations. I once donated but stopped it a while back.. when I saw suggestions and bugs being ignored and there being a bit of an arrogance and lack of straightup talk.

What can you tell us about the business model going forward and what changes if any there will be as to how revenue for Thirtybees is made?

No doubt TB code is better than others, but its obvious that business-wise its looking like its going to jump from the frying pan into the fire, led by defensive secretive pen pushers as business side partners. Ecommerce solutions need bold drivers with a plan that we, the punters, buy into and support. I really feel for Datakick and the other devs who have worked to make this pretty solid technically, but struggle to find business co partners who can make things happen and therefore turn over the money needed to pay the devs to make the site really good.

Even if TB is "alive" (ie being pushed around by lawyers, trying to make everything perfect, keep all the stakeholders totally clear of problems and issues and serving their interests) it's pretty obvious that the heart has gone. There's no passion to make this amazing, no bold direction, no guts, it's all defense and legal documents and secrecy. You are not going to have a business at all, even after spending months and months doing what you are told by self-serving lawyers if you guys don't man up and take some bold steps and risks. It's not ever possible or even desirable to have completely water tight legal arrangements and trying to do so just shows a lack of trust, drive and initiative. It shows us you are going to plod along playing legal games and being defensive.

Lol , the database is a big scary place. Does anyone know specifically what I can safely do to remove this problem, what code and db changes are required?

I have a module installed that I dont believe installed properly, so I installed it again. Im only seeing the module once in the modules list and its appearing and functioning normally. However Im regularly getting SQL warnings in the back office such as the one below. How can I remove what is probably a partial install and doesnt show up in the modules list?

In what way was NS8 involved with TB?

Although the tb devs have made thirtybees a superior product to presta, those of us buying addons in the presta marketplace continually have to defend tb against devs who dont know about tb and refuse guarantees or even to deal with us because tb isnt presta. We also have to ask devs to send addon updates because presta addons arent checked for updates on presta. (it would be great if they could be)

This is sounding like the attorney is not satisfied with the deal that took months to get to and its back to the negotiating table and that it could very well be many months more (possibly for them to make as much money as possible? Just doing what they recommend is often not in anybody's best interests except theirs) Thanks though for the updates, much appreciated.

Not solved.. same problem exists... the module is incompatible (unless we mess round changing core files which we shouldn't have to)

When I changed the primary category for products from Home to whatever was more appropriate @datakick suddenly I got a whole bunch of 404 errors from the old url. It probably would have been better if I'd been warned that changing the directory would change all the urls (yes you can say that's obvious and you are probably right.. but at the time I thought it would be fine), and better still if there had been an automatic redirect created. The only way I can see to fix this now is to go back and create redirects for every product whose category I changed. All I need is some way to do this (I could do it manually in the .htaccess file I know), it seems from what you are saying that the redirect is for already created urls?

Fatal error when trying to add a redirect at Preferences/ SEO & URLs Drop down menu asks you to select Page... Default or Modules? Cant actually select one and because this is required , the process become terminal