Any plans for the community theme?

[hubbobubbo]

For the last couple of months I have been following the evolution of TB vs PS 1.7. We have a very small shop that is barely avoiding loss that is running on 1.5. At some point https etc is needed so within the near future I will have to suffer an update.

From a technical perspective TB has all that I would need and I love the community. However I keep coming back to the theme issue so I invested some time in looking into and comparing themes and I have to give Prestashop credit for designing a nice default theme in 1.7. However when looking a bit deeper I noticed it was still using an old bootstrap and patching it was impossible. Then I checked TB default theme and it was using an even older one and for instance Lighthouse raises both the bootstrap and jquery versions as security flawed. Also, to be fair, the community theme is not that attractive out of the box (sorry).

Then I tested some sites running Panda etc and got quite poor results, worse than what my 5 year old shop is delivering on a shared hosting.

So, where am I going with this. What I am trying to say is that while TB has advanced massively in the platform side, I think a nice, modern and up-tp-date front office experience is critical. Having this out of the box for TB would be a major differentiator. There will always be a need for some customizations but I think it is better to have someone help you with that if you can not do it on your own (paid customization service). Everything I read about ui builders etc only seems to cause people problems and worsen performance.

I would be willing to help crowdfund or participate to the best of my ability in the work of a modern community theme, covering the basic functionality using an updated toolset. There are so many things happening in this space, not only with bootstrap 4 but with PWA's and so on (I think PS have started to use vue.js in the backend etc). I have just begun to scratch the surface of this topic but it seems super interesting.

It would be interesting to hear what others think?

[moy2010]

A new theme that wouldn't make use of that "old" bootstrap version that you mention would break pretty much everything (a.k.a. no module will work on your store, so you would have to stick to the basic features that are shipped with ThirtyBees). That option can only be supported from a totally new ThirtyBees version, which is still far from where we are.

Thirtybees is based on PS 1.6 and, since PS 1.6 launch date it was common sense that it was a bit slower than PS 1.5 due to the additional features it packed. That was the case with the default template, let alone with a custom one such as Panda that includes even more features.

Hence your points are rather inconsistent from a "critic to the default template design and performance" point of view.

[Traumflug]

I think a nice, modern and up-tp-date front office experience is critical.

Good point. Raises the question, what exactly such a 'modern' theme would look like.

So far, the default theme was also kind of a feature exhibition. It shows many of the bells and whistles the software is capable of. Before going into production, the usual way to go is to turn of half of them. Where every merchant has a different idea of which half is to be turned off.

Would a clean front page with a reduced feature set really work for thirty bees as a software, keeping it attractive for newbies, giving them an idea of the really rich set of add-ons available? I'm not sure about this. While me myself is a big fan of KISS, I read and hear calls for even more features everywhere. Calls for feature removals ( => clean GUI) are very rare. What do new merchants really want (which isn't necessarily what they say to be wanting) ?

[MockoB]

I believe he talks about more up to date design and not about features. Thirty bees has enough features already, I know it misses some important ones, but nothing critical. I just checked Pinterest for Eccomerce design trends and there are some good examples for up to date designs.

[encoder]

I agree on the need to update the theme either with updating bootstrap or not. The default theme lacks beauty because of the colors chosen as I understand that thirtybees is yellow and so on, bet it does not work here http://prntscr.com/jk0q6v and some other places too. I would suggest darkening some of the places or using other variations of yellow. The call-to-action buttons in product list should also be adjusted in a better manner than they are now: http://prntscr.com/jk0s4y There are some other small things that would need to be aligned, fixed or made a little better with a touch of designer eye. I think that the default theme should be a represent the quality of the thirty bees itself.

[encoder]

I agree on the need to update the theme either with updating bootstrap or not. The default theme lacks beauty because of the colors chosen as I understand that thirtybees is yellow and so on, bet it does not work here http://prntscr.com/jk0q6v and some other places too. I would suggest darkening some of the places or using other variations of yellow. The call-to-action buttons in product list should also be adjusted in a better manner than they are now: http://prntscr.com/jk0s4y There are some other small things that would need to be aligned, fixed or made a little better with a touch of designer eye. I think that the default theme should be a represent the quality of the thirty bees itself.

[nickon]

Just updated our sites theme largly inspired by ps 1.7 classic theme. Based on the transformer theme I get a 93% on gtmetrix

[lesley]

I consider tools like that useless for the most part. The numbers for the scores are generally not based off real world metrics.

[nickon]

@lesley For myself I use them to find general errors or improvments. Also if the score is high it makes you feel good :-D

[Manisch]

I agree that the theme could use an update. I also think this is something the community can help TB with (:

I'd love to see it orientating on Google's Material Design or the upcoming Windows Fluent Design.

[BlindPenguin]

Pls no. Not that Material or Windows Hype themes. I rather prefer a neutral theme, that can be customized easily. Something like Gambio. Or maybe Generatepress from Wordpress.

For anything else there are still commercial themes.

[Manisch]

@blindpenguin we are kinda on the same page. With Fluent and Material I mean a "flat and simple" design-language. Looking at your examples it seems like they somewhat match this idea.

[toplakd]

I like the original 1.6 theme, as I can customize it easily (colors and small stuff) and it also works well on my TB test install. But every eyes have their own view :)

[hubbobubbo]

Thanks for all your comments. Glad to see there is a discussion and I understand everything is based on what resources are available and what the priorities are.

My initial point was quite simple. 1. It seems both PS and TB use outdated versions of bootstrap. Lighthouse complains about this and it seems suboptimal to use things that are years old. However I am not an expert.
2. Without going into personal preferences like Material design etc. I still think the basics of almost any theme is the same, then you have to suffer some customization on top of it. What worries me is that the base is often not that great or up to date. I have to say how the .tpl files are structured in the classic theme made it incredible simple to modify but on the other hand, it was using an alpha version of bootstrap 4 which made searching the docs a nightmare and it was also just half baked still, lots of details not working.

My humble point was simply that having a clean but polished starter theme in TB built using up to date versions of bootstrap, jquery or what is needed would be a differentiator and I think a lot of people would be interested in helping ironing out and polish the details. Then after that, shiny features can be added through modules and skinning can be customized. However someone with the right skills has to set the baseline to start from :-)

Just my two cents

[dosbiner]

What about css grid to replace bootstrap? I read some article that css grid is better than bootstrap, available natively in the browser, cleaner html, more flexibility, and it will be the future of web layouting.

Source: https://hackernoon.com/how-css-grid-beats-bootstrap-85d5881cf163

[hubbobubbo]

I am not arguing in favour of a specific technology. I just wanted to raise my concern about getting stuck with legacy frameworks. Having something more up to date could perhaps offer a competitive edge for TB. Bootstrap do have some nice things outside of the gridsystem as well which might be helpful.

[BlindPenguin]

@dosbiner With css grid you will have the problem with browser support. There are still those strange people out there, who are using something like IE11 or worse. Wouldn't recommend that.

Bootstrap is just fine. Everyone knows it, so there are plenty of people who can modify it without much to learn. Also it is a mature framework, hat just works everywhere. It only needs an update. Maybe there is some kind of modernizer script, that can make it backwards compatible. Like jquery-migrate or modernizer.js.

[Traumflug]

I read some article that css grid is better than bootstrap, available natively in the browser, cleaner html, more flexibility, and it will be the future of web layouting.

I looked into this article and it basically recommends stepping back to having no formatting in HTML. Just like it was recommended before Bootstrap arrived. All this with the knowledge that modern browsers ( < 1 year old) now support reasonable formatting.

While this is certainly a way to consider, it also requires formatting rules for every situation ever happening. Less HTML, much more CSS. Unless you have a very standardized layout like e.g. Wikipedia.

My $0.02.

[simchgab]

The cms functionality is excellent and very robust for noob and more advanced users. But I think it is necessary to change the appearance of the theme by default. This version of the theme seems from the 80s of the 90s, we need to update the bootstrap and Jquerys versions, for example, it is not necessary to change the functionality, it is only necessary to change the visual aesthetics. I think the default theme needs more "less is more" in case a user wants to add more functionality can always accommodate the module with functionality, but at least it should be attractive to the visual

[nickon]

@simchgab and the question is who will do that? Changing the default theme takes hours away from core development @mdekker has gone and god knows when he will be back and @Traumflug and @datakick are the two main ppl that contribute with real code. So although you are totally right, I don't know if this the right thing to do atm

[simchgab]

I dont tell this is a critical. I tell this its for add to future changes, If the cms good work and stable, and the front is superior of presta, This proyect kick the ass of presta..