German support for thirty bees

[lesley]

We have had a lot of inquires for German specific support for thirty bees. We plan on fully supporting the German market, but to be honest we are not sure about all of the regulations. What we need is help from German users.

We need to know what the shortcomings are and what needs to be done to fix them. We realize things are very different over there in regard to the ecommerce laws, but none of us are from Germany so we do not know the specifics.

If some German people could install thirty bees and give us some feed back that would be great. We could also use some German translations as well.

[gwasch]

Allready at work... I'm from Austria and develop shops for the german market (Austria, Germany, Switzerland) And: Certified PrestaShop Agency - so we know the system allready ;-)

So if you want me as Thirty Bees Partner Agency - just write to me ;-)

Fully translated TB 1.0 German Files uploaded in Forum here: https://forum.thirtybees.com/topic/16/localization-pack-german-de

[Lausli]

It would be great if the german users can use an Category to talk about the shop....

I have a few questions

Is there an eBay Modul in progress? How important is the German market place for legal security? Is there a german contact person? What will be in 1-2 years? Can I transfer my store of 1.6.1.11 to you?

Casually asked: How do you earn money? You do not live by air or love. Somehow must be generated as an obolus. Is there a risk that normal functions will cost money in some months or years?

[lesley]

There is not an ebay module in progress, but the standard one you are using should work.

The German market is important enough that we realize that people are worried about it and we are reaching out to figure things out. There is not a german contact yet. That is the point of this post is to try to get German people to help us since we do not know all of the laws and struggles.

Sure you can transfer your store, everything should be compatible.

Currently we do not earn money, we are hoping to change that in the future. We are going to earn money through partnerships. We do not plan to release any paid modules from our side, we will have an addons store that other developers can release paid modules from though. We will also have a free module repository at the same time too. Everything we release from thirty bees will be free.

[Lausli]

Thank you for your fast Respond! What you say sounds quite excellent.

@lesley said in German support for thirty bees:

There is not an ebay module in progress, but the standard one you are using should work.

But this will not be permanent! Sooner or later this will not work.

I use Prestashop only at the moment because of the eBay Modul (my english is not so well, i hope you can understand what i write)

Unfortunately 202 has always updated the module horribly I'm not a programmer, I just try to run the module. Without restrictions. https://www.prestashop.com/forums/topic/571694-ebay-modul-community-edition-no-block/

But I do not think that I could adapt the module later to your system if this is necessary. Especially for small users like me, it is important to have an opportunity to manage via a central system.

I will test your system and try to install the module. But since I am no programmer I can not determine whether everything works properly.

Good luck for the future! We all hope for a well-running system and an administration that takes us seriously.

[DRMasterChief]

Hello, this is my first time here and i hope i can bring in some information and help in the future (or ideas, i am an user and not an coding specialist) :-)

I will install TB for an test in the next days. At the moment i have a new installation of PS 1.6.1.11 with the very important module "EU Rechtssicherheit", but this does not work 100% and it causes that there is the description "inkl. MwSt. zzgl. Versandkosten" two times at the Home site. Looks not very professionally.... and it seems that there is no solution for this problem from the PS team.

So maybe you can already tell me if the same problem is with ThirtyBees?

The German market definitely needs an modern and up-to-date shopsystem (i came from the modified-shop, but there are a lot of things we cant do with modified and i think the future can not be started with modified-shop). German market is also very big and it is a good chance for ThirtyBees, but the system has to fulfil the regulations and laws.

I will install TB 1.0.0 under a PHP 7.1 asap and let you know. I will also try to connect TB with JTL-Connector to use JTL-Wawi (which is very important for me) https://www.jtl-software.de/

bye

[MockoB]

Actually there are issues with EU compliance module, but here I submitted the bug and you can check whenever it is solved or not: https://github.com/thirtybees/ThirtyBees/issues/104 if you find other bugs with it please inform us. It would be nice if you share other law obligations which are not by default included and you would like to see in thirtybees concerning German online market.

[mannefred]

The german market needs are not so difficult to do. I would not use a modul for all these specific needs.

A) you need a notice near every price: "inclusive tax or exclusive tax additional delivery cost "(if you have some) Sometimes the transportation cost is a hoover or link with more exactly description. You do not need the link if you have a link to a delivery cost site easy to reach at the side. I would do this in the template. b) you shoud have maybe the first 100 letters of the product short-description in the basket before a user can buy finally. This to show some more detailed what is ordered, because germans are not able to check before what they want to order... ;-) c) The last BUY button you need the german word BUY or similar.- I would do this in the template for example d) if a product is sold in packing units, for example 0,5 kg, the shopsystem should be able to calculate how much is 1 kg and write this near the price. e) Some links to special sites like Impressum, delivery cost ... normaly it is made with a build in cms system: Why prestashop s cms don t use the user group authorizations like the categories? f) in the last order confirmation / check-out site a check-in field to "confirm the stupid german regulations " ...i don t know in englisch exactly... g) in the basket and order confirmation / checkout the tax as a single position. h) in the basket a drop down menu with different countries what shows the delivery cost if you deliver to different countries. ( or you find out where the customer want to be delivered before he reach the basket - ). Maybe also the tax of the delivery cost, but not sure.

what more ? (If somebody is able to write in more useful english, please improove ;-) )

[DRMasterChief]

Hello, i try to give some more details about the German and Austria needs:

1. We have to give information to the customer about different delivery time and costs in different countries. In modified-shop we have solved it the following way: we indicate each article with a "*" like this: Delivery time: 4-7 days *

And write down in the footer the following text: * Applies to deliveries to Germany. Delivery times for other countries and information on the calculation of the delivery date see here (link to an information page with further details on delivery times, delivery periods, etc.) Maybe this could be solved in PS/TB by asterisks and the asterisk also in "delivery conditions". I have not yet tested.

1. Correct information in case of price reductions, i think this could be already done by translations (e.g. Unser bisheriger Preis: 9,98 EUR)

3.There has to be a short description of the items in the shopping basket (directly before the customer finishes with "payable order"). It should be the most important features of the item, 50-100 characters are ok....
Ideal for this would be a separate way to enter something like this in the item description, ... a possibility to specify defined "essential product characteristics", which then are displayed in the order overview at the last step before "buy button" for the customers.

Hope the English is ok and helpfull. Please let us discuss about our special needs here :)

[MockoB]

That was nice addition to the above, some of the details are more clarified now. Only thing that bothers me is that short description in the cart. The products I sell are selling by tens and thousands and with short description of every product it will be endless cart list. I will check if eu compliance module covers all those mentioned above once it is fully working. Thanks for the useful information.

[DRMasterChief]

Thank you. We need an additional feature for different taxes in the shopping basket. In Germany, there are different taxes, e.g. 19% for a T-shirt, but 7% for an printed book. It is necessary to show the different tax values in dependence of the items in the shopping basket.

[MockoB]

May I ask for the EU cookie law. I read somewhere that in Germany it is not necessary to have EU cookie law message when entering a site which is using cookies. Is it true or I misunderstood something? I know that at the beginning of next year the law changes and the banner will be removed but what about current situation?

[Lausli]

https://www.e-recht24.de/artikel/datenschutz/8451-hinweispflicht-fuer-cookies.html http://www.it-recht-kanzlei.de/google-cookie-hinweis.html http://rechtsanwalt-schwenke.de/google-macht-cookie-hinweise-zur-pflicht-handlungsempfehlung-fuer-website-und-appanbieter/ https://hosting.1und1.de/digitalguide/websites/online-recht/die-eu-cookie-richtlinie-teil-1-was-gilt-in-deutschland/

Kurz: In Deutschland wurde die Cookie-Richtlinie nicht eigens mit einem neuen Gesetz umgesetzt. Der Grund: Die Bundesregierung sieht die Richtlinie bereits mit dem deutschen Telemediengesetz (TMG) als erfüllt an. Jedoch deckt das TMG die Forderungen der EU-Richtlinie nicht umfassend ab. Denn viele verstehen die Cookie-Richtlinie der EU als Anordnung einer Opt-in-Pflicht, wogegen das TMG allein eine Opt-out-Variante vorschreibt. Datenschützer kritisieren deshalb die schwache Umsetzung der EU-Richtlinie. Da das TMG momentan geltendes deutsches Recht darstellt, müssen Website-Betreiber in Deutschland lediglich folgende Anforderungen erfüllen:

Die Nutzer müssen über die Datenspeicherung verständlich und umfassend informiert werden. Die Nutzer müssen der Datenspeicherung widersprechen können. Die Daten dürfen nur anonymisiert gespeichert werden – außer die Nutzer stimmen der Speicherung personalisierter Daten zu.

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In Germany, the Cookie Directive was not implemented specifically with a new law. The reason: The Federal Government sees the directive already fulfilled with the German Telemediengesetz (TMG). However, the TMG does not fully cover the requirements of the EU Directive. Many consider the EU Cookie Directive to be an opt-in obligation, whereas the TMG only requires an opt-out variant. Data protectionists therefore criticize the weak implementation of the EU directive. Since TMG is currently German law, website operators in Germany only have to fulfill the following requirements:

The users have to be informed about the data storage comprehensibly and comprehensively. Users must be able to object to data storage. The data may only be saved anonymously - unless the user agrees to the storage of personalized data.

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Das deutsche Recht kennt aktuell trotz der EU Richtlinie also keine direkte Pflicht, die Nutzer in die Verwendung von Cookies einwilligen zu lassen.

Es sollte aber eingebunden werden. Es schadet zumindest nicht

[MockoB]

Thanks for the detailed answer! After all the way I see things to inform the users enough comprehensibly and comprehensively about the cookies you should use message at login because I don't see how can I force some one to read about it other way... What would cost me to hire a lawyer to check if my store fulfills all German law directives and advice if something is wrong? Of course if anybody used ever such service.

[Lausli]

The German legal system is very complicated and a lot of attention has to be paid.

I hope in terms of TB that German law is not too complicated. Especially with the many and fast changes. Sometimes only a few weeks / months remain until a new regulation has to be implemented.

[DRMasterChief]

Hello, just a short question:

can anyone tell us if the Developer has seen our "special demands" for an German onlineshop and can we get an short view if this is interesting for the TB team or not?

thank you

[Havouza]

Can a layman ask a question, the regulations for Germany is only for shops run by German businesses or sole traders, or for all shops selling towards German customers

[MockoB]

I am pretty sure it will be interesting but could you please list all conditions a German shop should cover, for example: 1. On every product description should be stated the delivery time and price with and without tax. 2. In the checkout process there should be option for the client to accept ... whatever it needs to be accepted. etc. I think you get the point. They maybe are all written here in the forum but it will be easier for a developer to have a clear list with the steps he needs to cover.

And as I understood TB needs decent translation in German first of all, so if you could help it would be nice :)

[MockoB]

@Havouza if your target is German market you should cover strictly their law.

[wakabayashi]

@Havouza said in German support for thirty bees:

Can a layman ask a question, the regulations for Germany is only for shops run by German businesses or sole traders, or for all shops selling towards German customers

If you write somewhere, that you send to germany. Then you have to follow their laws. Also if you publish shipping cost or so. So basically answer to your question is YES.

What we do: We communicate, that we don't ship to germany. From time to time we get question: "oh come on, can't you do an exception for me?". Then we are allowed to this, without following german law. But of course that way, you aren't targeting germany.

[Havouza]

So a way to do this is to connect the shop to eBay and Amazon to be present on the German market But again, it would be interesting to know how they would enforce it and if it is really legal to demand this from foreign businesses

[DRMasterChief]

Hello MockoB, please see one of my previous messages here....

1. We have to give information to the customer about different delivery time and costs in different countries. In modified-shop we have solved it the following way: we indicate each article with a “*” like this: Delivery time: 4-7 days * And write down in the footer the following text: * Applies to deliveries to Germany. Delivery times for other countries and information on the calculation of the delivery date see here (link to an information page with further details on delivery times, delivery periods, etc.) Maybe this could be solved in PS/TB by asterisks and the asterisk also in “delivery conditions”. I have not yet tested.

1. Correct information in case of price reductions, i think this could be already done by translations (e.g. Unser bisheriger Preis: 9,98 EUR)

3. There has to be a short description of the items in the shopping basket (directly before the customer finishes with “payable order”). It should be the most important features of the item, 50-100 characters are ok… Ideal for this would be a separate way to enter something like this in the item description in the backend, … a possibility to specify defined “essential product characteristics”, which then are displayed in the order overview at the last step before “buy button” for the customers.

4. On every product description should be stated the delivery time and price with tax (we have 7% and 19% here in Germany, in Austria it is almost the same).

5. In the checkout process the customer has to accept the "Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen (AGB) = Terms of service" and the "Datenschutzbestimmungen = privacy policy". It has to be a check field with links to the "Terms of service" and the "privacy policy" (source is CMS from the backend).

[DRMasterChief]

its me again, most of these is already done by the module "advancedeucompliance" , but this module works not properly with most of the Templates. It causes also an problem with the Smarty-Cache (when it is on). Hopefully TB can build on this module and so something better?!

[MockoB]

I hope so, the module is already in TB github page with bugs and I believe @mdekker will fix it for the next release.

[DRMasterChief]

Hi mdekker, thank you for the information. Maybe it is possible to integrate most of these functions in the "normal" backend, so the webmaster can choose if he will use these functions or not. It is not just the needs by law, some of the functions are very good and nice to have for the customer, so maybe it could be interesting in other countries too (not only DE and AT).