Off Topic - New German Packaging Laws

[haylau]

Just wondered if any of you talented folk have an insight to the new German packagining laws

If we, as a business in the UK or USA or france, or well Anywhere, sell an item on Ebay or Amazon, or our own sebsite (let's say a generic 99p widget) and that item has to be shipped to Germany do we have to register and adhere to their new laws?

Details here: [https://lnkd.in/gTq73kT](link url)

[DRMasterChief]

Hello, here is the official site for this: https://lucid.verpackungsregister.org/ (and you can switch this to English), some additional informations are here:

https://www.verpackungsregister.org/fileadmin/userupload/How-to-Guideen04092018.pdf https://www.verpackungsregister.org/fileadmin/userupload/10-W-Fragenen15082018.pdf

Please feel free for a further discussion, but i think the best is to read the official documents first.

[musicmaster]

I don't understand that law either. The site says that transport materials are excluded. But what about the normal packaging. Many webshops here have two or three orders a year from Germany....

[DRMasterChief]

'Transport materials' means the packaging which goes e.g. from manufacturer to wholesaler, or e.g. from manufacturer to supermarket. The B2B branch has to pay for the recydling and disposal for their own in a separate system. They are not captured by this new regulations. It does not mean the transport packaging which goes from merchant to customer - so it is up to the merchant which sells to 'end users' to register in the Lucid system and pay a fee for the packaging material (e.g. at Zentek, you can get a 10% discount here https://www.zmart24.de/verkaufsverpackungen/kalkulator?AddressSource=Roper&coupon=roper2019 )

[fuji3776]

As far as I understand the following part from the German website QUOTE START: Wer ist verpflichtet? Was ist ein Hersteller? Das Verpackungsgesetz (VerpackG) nutzt den vieldeutigen Begriff „Hersteller“. Tatsächlich gemeint ist jedoch derjenige, der eine Verpackung erstmalig mit Ware befüllt oder erstmalig befüllt in Deutschland in Verkehr bringt (Importeur) und diese Verpackung typischerweise beim privaten Endverbraucher als Abfall anfällt. ... QUOTE END

It says IMPORTEUR so that means to me that the person or company that imports the product into Germany. If you are not based in Germany and you sell over your own website you are not the importer but the customer is. I would also take the same if you sell through ebay.com or amazon.com, but it might be a different issue when you sell via ebay.de and amazon.de and here especially when selling with FBA on amazon.de

[haylau]

I think "importeur" there is about companies importing large quantities from a manufacturer. I am talking about straight to consumer.

I think this may be relevenat though

Does the German Packaging Act also apply to exports from Germany? No, the German Packaging Act will only apply in the Federal Republic of Germany. Insofar as packaging is exported outside the scope of application, the Packaging Act does not apply in this respect. However, since this involves the transposition of European law, separate national laws also apply in other EU countries.

If they are saying they can send unregistered unrecylceable packaging to the rest of the world, then surely they can't expect the rest of the world to adhere to their systems.

I strongly beleive this is for the sellers IN GERMANY and cannot be enforced to sellers outside of Germany

[DRMasterChief]

A short translation from the official site: Does the German Packaging Act also apply to exports from Germany? No, the German Packaging Act will only apply in the Federal Republic of Germany. Insofar as packaging is exported outside the scope of application, the Packaging Act does not apply in this respect. However, since this involves the transposition of European law, separate national laws also apply in other EU countries.

.....Importer is also an online shop based abroad, if the goods are delivered directly to private consumers in Germany. This applies both to the shipping packaging including filling material and to the packaging of the products themselves, insofar as these are typically incurred by the private end user as waste.....

btw. this are EU regulations and not only valid in Germany, but maybe the Germans are the first ones which realize that EU law in a newer way. I think most of the other EU countries will have similar rules or will bring them on the way in the next years.

[the.rampage.rado]

The problem with all those packages and overpackaging that we see in large scale operation should be fixed at the other end. Where the retailers, dealers, etc get their packaging stuff - they should pay this tax when obtaining the packaging. If you operate in EU and put product in the market or retail/distribute it you should pay the tax but when obtaining the product form your dealer or when obtaining the transportation packaging from your supplier.

I don't see anybody giving a 2 cents about this in Easter Europe in the next 20 years I'm afraid...

I don't know what the avobe mentioned calculator does but if I have 15 packages a year with boxes of 0,75 kg each then I have to pay 69 Euro... excuse me... but do you take your medications?!?

[DRMasterChief]

500 kg carton/paper is about 74 EUR 500 kg glass is about 54 EUR aluminium and plastics are much higher (and this is perspicuous - go green folks !!) (but some offers need a minimum fee which includes some total weights, depends on the contract)

Now - Merry Xmas !

[fuji3776]

@drmasterchief said in Off Topic - New German Packaging Laws:

.....Importer is also an online shop based abroad, if the goods are delivered directly to private consumers in Germany. This applies both to the shipping packaging including filling material and to the packaging of the products themselves, insofar as these are typically incurred by the private end user as waste.....

Was that also written on the website?

Regarding my knowledge of import/export, the importer is the one who brings an item into the country. So if you are a US based shop that sells directly over your its website and a German guy orders something, the importer is the German guy who has ordered it and not the seller.

[lesley]

This seems like another law that only big companies will follow, or companies in other EU states. I cannot see US/CA/MX based companies that have no EU presence even be remotely concerned with this.

[DRMasterChief]

It is possible to check for companies and brands, full functional from 1. January on: https://oeffentliche-register.verpackungsregister.org/Manufacturer

@fuji3776 yes i found this also at the site and just do a simple translation (not all sites are available in English). This is from the FAQ:

Manufacturer of a product

As a rule, the manufacturer of a product is the first-time supplier in Germany and thus obliged to register.

Importer of a product

However, if this manufacturer has its headquarters abroad, then the domestic importer can also be considered as the first-time distributor in Germany and thus as the manufacturer. In principle, in the case of importation, the person who has the legal responsibility for the goods has the obligation to participate in the system when crossing the border. In addition, it should be noted that in case of non-compliance with obligations, the final distributor is subject to a distribution ban.

mail order companies

Similarly, mail order companies are manufacturers in the sense of the VerpackG. A mail order company fills a shipping container with goods for the first time, so that the system participation and registration obligation for this packaging is always with him, he is at least for the shipping container first-time carrier in the sense of the Packaging Act. The fact that the shipping packaging is used to deliver the product to the final consumer always qualifies it as a sales packaging, as it is typically waste for the end user.

A registration in LUCID is in any case only under the designation "manufacturer" and not "dealer", "distributor" or the like because of the broad manufacturer concept of the VerpackG. possible.

[MockoB]

I don’t get it. If I’m selling to German market from other eu country, who is responsible for the tax and who should comply with the law? Is it the shipping company or me as importer (manufacturer)?

[the.rampage.rado]

You as importer/manufacturer

[DRMasterChief]

as it says: In principle, in the case of importation, the person who has the legal responsibility for the goods has the obligation to participate in the system when crossing the border.

[fuji3776]

@drmasterchief said in Off Topic - New German Packaging Laws:

However, if this manufacturer has its headquarters abroad, then the domestic importer can also be considered as the first-time distributor in Germany and thus as the manufacturer.

That is exact the situation I was talking about. The domestic importer is the one who imports the product into Germany. If you are based in the US and sell over your own website and have no representative in Germany you are not the importer but the one who buys the goods is. That can either be a company or a private person. In case you sell on the German Amazon marketplace and use FBA it might be a different issue as you are sending goods to Germany in bulk and then from there to the end user.

@mockob said in Off Topic - New German Packaging Laws:

I don’t get it. If I’m selling to German market from other eu country, who is responsible for the tax and who should comply with the law? Is it the shipping company or me as importer (manufacturer)?

When selling from an EU country to another EU country, things might be different as the EU has specific rules how to deal with domestic laws of their member countries. Especially the taxing is something I would advice you to consult your local chamber of commerce or a lawyer.

[haylau]

So finally I have an "official" reply from  "ERDF International Trade Adviser |North West International Trade Team , Department for International Trade" 

Having spoken to my colleagues I can confirm that the new German packaging laws would apply if your product is being warehoused in Germany. However, if a German customer is buying from your UK website this wouldn’t apply**_

And

The German Packaging Law would apply if

A sole trader or other type of business is warehousing product in German
Trading on Amazon under .de (multi country platform)
The business website has German SEO or the website is specifically targeting German customers

[marysmi]

Hello, I understand how hard the topic is and I would like to add an explanation concerning the Packaging Act of 2019: “The German Packaging Act affects UK retailers who, as distributors – including online retailers – bring packaging onto the market for the first time and send it to private end customers in Germany. Private end customers are private individuals, but also restaurants and public institutions such as schools, hospitals and barracks. Traders are affected from the first box that is shipped. […] Packaging that has already been licensed does not need to be licensed again. However, for each packaging there must be solid evidence that the product has already been paid for. Anyone who sells B2B with companies in Germany is not affected by this rule. Instead, the return conditions for transport packaging in the B2B area apply here.“ (https://www.lizenzero.de/en/blog/german-packaging-act-in-the-uk-obligations-when-shipping-to-germany/)
If you need more information on the topic, just check the website. I’ve been using their service for some time now and I can definitely recommend working with them.

Mary