Prices for B2C customers in the EU should always be including VAT so only the net price changes - how?

[30knees]

Currently, prices for B2C customers are shown including VAT. This is good.

However, when a customer goes to check out and they enter their address, the price shown to the customer will change because of that customer's country's VAT rate being different AND because (my) thirtybees does not change the net price of the product excluding VAT, but the gross price including VAT.

I thought we had a setting that permitted us to keep prices for the customer at the same gross price, regardless of their VAT rate. Am I remembering something that actually never was?

[datakick]

Yes, such functionality was never implemented.

Thirty bees always saved product base price as tax excluded. 

On product page you can enter price tax included, but all that does is that system will calculate price without tax using default country tax rate, and save this info into database. 

[e-com]

On 1/20/2023 at 9:17 AM, 30knees said:

I thought we had a setting that permitted us to keep prices for the customer at the same gross price, regardless of their VAT rate. Am I remembering something that actually never was?

By using this method of prices calculation you will violate EU directive on price discrimination.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/index_en.htm#shortcut-4

[30knees]

I hadn't thought about that but I don't think this particular scenario qualifies as price discrimination. It's an objective factor and it's about distance selling between countries, which is treated differently.

That being said, there should be a way for a shop to show the price dependent on delivery to a certain country, for example because the visitor, without being logged in, can select "Greece".

Alternatively, it would be great to have the net price change but the gross price stay the same).

@e-comAre you aware of any ways to achieve one of the above?

Edited January 26, 2023 by 30knees

[datakick]

39 minutes ago, 30knees said:

I hadn't thought about that but I don't think this particular scenario qualifies as price discrimination. It's an objective factor and it's about distance selling between countries, which is treated differently.

That being said, there should be a way for a shop to show the price dependent on delivery to a certain country, for example because the visitor, without being logged in, can select "Greece".

Alternatively, it would be great to have the net price change but the gross price stay the same).

@e-comAre you aware of any ways to achieve one of the above?

Tax calculator needs specific address, it is not based only on countries. For example in US sales tax can be different in different states/counties/cities/postcode ranges.

Thirty bees actually displays price for selected delivery address. The problem is that in most cases the address is not selected before you go to checkout page.

You can test it: go to checkout page, create new address for example in the US, and then go back to your catalog. You should see your prices displayed without tax. If you choose address in different EU country you should see prices for that country.

We could make a module that

1. would create 'dummy' addresses on the fly based on your geolocation (by default)
2. allowed you to select your country in some select box on front office (explicit selection)
3. and make sure that the dummy address is actually deleted before you go to checkout page

I do something similar in chex module to determine final price. 

[30knees]

Yes, something like your module was what I had in mind. As you said, mostly people don't log in / select the sihpping address before the checkout. 

This issue actually came up yesterday. A customer wrote saying the price changed when she went to the checkout and she was wondering whether it's because of taxes in her country. 

[the.rampage.rado]

Quick question - do you sell to individuals and are you registered in with the One Stop Shop?

[wakabayashi]

On 1/20/2023 at 9:17 AM, 30knees said:

I thought we had a setting that permitted us to keep prices for the customer at the same gross price, regardless of their VAT rate.

Are you sure, that you want that? Economically this sounds like a strange idea to me.

Is your problem about states or only countries? I believe this is one of the reason why international shops ask me at the beginning if I am from switzerland. It's similair to asking the currency.

[30knees]

6 hours ago, the.rampage.rado said:

Quick question - do you sell to individuals and are you registered in with the One Stop Shop?

Yes and yes.

[30knees]

3 hours ago, wakabayashi said:

Are you sure, that you want that? Economically this sounds like a strange idea to me.

Is your problem about states or only countries? I believe this is one of the reason why international shops ask me at the beginning if I am from switzerland. It's similair to asking the currency.

It's only for countries.

It's true that calculating based on a fixed net price is easier / safer. But there isn't such a massive difference between the VAT rates that a sale would no longer be economically viable.

Still, datakick's module would 'fix' the problem of customers being surprised. 

[toplakd]

If you use geolocation, shop already knows aproximate location of the customer.

With help of that, shop already displays prices with tax rate from customers country and shipping rates for carriers that are active for that country if the customer is not yet logged in.

[30knees]

I wasn't aware of that, thank you. Which module do you use? I see there's one from MaxMind that's the tb default one.

[toplakd]

Yes, that's the one I use as its working same way as the old setup where geoip was loaded directly from core.

[datakick]

9 hours ago, 30knees said:

I wasn't aware of that, thank you. Which module do you use? I see there's one from MaxMind that's the tb default one.

If you use cloudflare, you can also use my cloudflare-geoip module: https://store.getdatakick.com/en/modules/cloudflare-geoip

Then you will not have to update your local version of maxmind database every now and then. And their db is probably more precise then free version from maxmind

[30knees]

On 1/20/2023 at 9:17 AM, 30knees said:

Currently, prices for B2C customers are shown including VAT. This is good.

However, when a customer goes to check out and they enter their address, the price shown to the customer will change because of that customer's country's VAT rate being different AND because (my) thirtybees does not change the net price of the product excluding VAT, but the gross price including VAT.

I thought we had a setting that permitted us to keep prices for the customer at the same gross price, regardless of their VAT rate. Am I remembering something that actually never was?

In case someone is looking: a module that permits this: https://addons.prestashop.com/en/price-management/53088-same-price-products-and-shipping-after-vat-applied.html