vincentdenkspel

@dynambee You believe that short term financial benefit is more important. I believe that attracting new users is more important. I this case I do. @mdekker (and maybe also @lesley) have to take on other projects in order to have an income. That time they spend on other projects can't be spent on TB. So yes, in this case in think the short-term financial benefit will also benefit TB in the long term. The sooner they can focus completely on TB the better it will be in the long-term.

@dynambee said in 3000% funded !!: I think my post was pretty clear about that It is, but I disagree with you. In that year it can be bought for a small fee. That fact that I have another opinion doesn't mean you weren't clear. And as I said, I rather pay $30 than € 299,99. To me, that would be a great incentive to switch if that is a module I really needed. However from the longer term goal of the modules being helpful in attracting new users and growing the overall 30bz community it would be counterproductive. That's your opinion. Mine is different but that doesn't mean mine is less true. The problem is that one year it is not available for free. After that, it will definitely contribute. Based on what 30bz has said about not selling their own modules... I forget about this. However, sometimes one needs to reconsider their initial thoughts. There are many examples of companies that stuck to there initial business strategy and don't exist anymore. We have definitely a different opinion on this matter and think we will not agree about this. And that is alright. However, since we are the only two who have posted here I think it is better to end it. Thanks for this discussion. I found it valuable.

@dynambee said in 19 Patron ?!: I think once 30bz gets to a big enough size they may wish to offer a “cloud version” where people can pay a monthly subscription if they wish, or they can download the free version and host it themselves if they wish. I totally agree. This model is also used by erpnext and from what I read (i think in a blog post of them) on the forum quite successful

@traumflug I did not say money is more important than code contributions/bug fixing. I only say that with the extra money the maintainer can provide in their living and/or hire extra developers for the project

@dynambee said in 3000% funded !!: The trouble is that as the module progressed it became clear that in order to make it compatible with as many different types of shops as possible it would take more time. Whatever the reason, the fact remains that the ES module takes much more time than anticipated. Also, @mdekker mentioned to me in a chat that is was clear upfront that the ES module would cost more than the current campaign price but that they thought if the price would be twice as much the campaign would not succeed. Sure, one can encourage people to donate by only allowing limited release but then for a year after the module becomes available it contributes nothing to the growth of the overall 30bz project. Of course, it does. People get a high-quality module for free for which they would have paid otherwise large amounts of money. In case of ES module, which has as least the same functionality as the advanced search module from Prestaaddons, you need to pay €299,99 with one year support. So I don't understand how you can say it won't contribute to the overall growth of TB Also, what about all the people who arrive at 30bz after the module is complete Simple, they wait until it is released for free or they can buy it in the store for let's say $30 until it is released ( in case of ES module still much cheaper than the € 299,00) I think the most important thing is to gather a larger userbase and to do so quickly I think my suggestion will do exactly that. Every month $5000 is needed for fixed costs etc. In case of the ES module campaign, $2000 was raised, so $3000 to cover the cost for that month. The developer had to take on other jobs for that. If the campaign was funded by 150% the developer had to work less to cover the costs. That extra time he could have spend on TB. So I definitely think my suggestion can benefit the TB project as a whole.

@dynambee, Of course, i understand that the ES project would not get funded 3000%. I only choose this title to start a discussion. It turns out that the ES crowdfunding project takes way more development time than anticipated because of the complexity. I seriously doubt if the project would have been funded if the project price was 2 to 3 times higher than it is now. I still do think that in order to get larger module projects funded there must be a clear incentive to support the project. A 'delayed free release' of the module for non-funders could be such an in incentive. Let's say the next project will be a feature rich review module. If you can get such a module for $15 by funding the project than that is a steal. " However it’s not a stable source of income for a business, especially with a small community like ours." I'm not saying that. I do think however it is a way to get high-quality modules developed much sooner and as such make TB much more attractive for potential users. This willdistinguish TB from other ecommerce software.

@dynambee said in 3000% funded !!: The more high-quality free modules there are, the faster the community will grow. Exactly. The problem is how do we get more high-quality products? If the developers have to do other projects in order to provide in their living than they can't devote that time to TB. Crowdfunding can be a solution and my suggestion can bring more contributors. I see it as a win-win for everybody. Furthermore, a 100x larger userbase doesn't necessarily mean 100x more contributors. In fact, i think it will be far less because people will think 'there as so many contributors, so I don't have to contribute'

@dynambee As @Traumflug mentioned in another post: "but people have to learn that “free” no longer means “zero money” " I totally agree with this. Free as in 'don't have to pay for it' doesn't bring bread and butter on the table of @mdekker and @lesley . I think the suggestions I mentioned in this post can bring at least some bread and butter on the table. Als also would like to address the following: I think it is fair to say that the 20/80 rule applies to the crowdfunding of the ES module. In this case: 20% of the contributors funded 80% of the project. I'm a strong believer in crowdfunding TB modules. The reason I invested the amount I did is that I really need that functionality. Secondly because of the great perk and thirdly importantly because I was financially able to that at that time. I don't think I won't be able to do that again. I will support future crowdfunding projects of TB but likely not for that amount of money. If other high contributors also decide to support with less money that I wonder if future projects get fully funded. Creating an incentive to fund can help to get the project funded. My proposal is such an incentive. Added: A large user base of people with the with the mentality of 'free as in don't have to pay for it' will not prevent TB from dying. TB needs a large user base that is willing to contribute by contributing code, bug fixing AS WELL AS money in some sort of way.

On Kickstarter, I've seen various campaigns that were funded by 3000% or more. The first question that pops up in my mind is 'why is it that the ES crowdfunding project is only funded by 101% ?' The most logical explanation to the question is that the project is only interesting for a small group of people. However, I think there is another explanation. When you support a 'product' campaign there is a clear incentive to do so. You get a 30%, 40% or sometimes even 50% discount on the product (depending on the perk and how soon you buy a perk). And when the campaign is over you will have to pay the full price for the product. With the ES crowdfunding project, this was not the case. Once the campaign is funded the module will be released for free. So there is no incentive to fund the campaign once it is 100% funded. So people who do want the module, but don't want to spend any money can wait and see if the campaign gets funded without their support. If the campaign doesn't get funded they always can decide whether or not they will fund the campaign. I really think crowdfunding can be a valuable option to bring the TB project to a higher level. Therefore I really hope there will be another crowdfunding project for another module (a good review module for example) I would like to make some suggestions for another way of crowdfunding a new module if they ( @mdekker and @lesley )decide to do so. Firstly I would set a minimum amount in order for you to be able to contribute e.g.$ 15. (Fifteen dollars for a high-quality module is very cheap). I also would create some perks as they did the last time for people who are willing to support more. Secondly, I would set a larger period before the campaign ends (e.g. 2 months). In this period people can support the project even if it gets funded 100%. And the third, and I expect, for some a controversial/unacceptable, suggestion: After the campaign has ended I would NOT release the module for free for a certain period (e.g. 12 to 18 months). During this period people can buy the module in the store but at a higher price than when they would have funded the project. After this period the module will be released to the public and can be downloaded for free. Why this third suggestion? People will have a clear incentive to support the project by not releasing the module for free for a certain period of time. By supporting the campaign people will get the module for $15. If they did not support the campaign but decide they want the module after all the can either wait till it is released for free or the can buy it in the store for let's say $40 (still cheap for a quality module). Why is this good for TB? I think this is good for TB because it is likely the campaign will be overfunded. Not by 3000% but still... The extra money could be used to enhance the module with extra features or to enhance TB project as a whole. P.S. According to the service Grammarly, there are 29 'advanced issues' in this text. I could have bought an upgrade package so the text would be better, but I rather spend the money to support TB. So my apologies for my bad English.

@alwayspaws If my post upset you than i sorry about that. That was not my intention. However if this indeed the case than i must say i don't understand why. I wrote "I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT DO CONTRIBUTE BIG TIME TO TB BY SOLVING BUGS/CODING ETC." I think you make valuable contributions, so no need to be upset. However i do think that there are various people that only take and do not give at all in any sort of way

@traumflug i also think that crowdfunding i a good way. However, not in the way ES was funded. My second post of will be about that. I hope to post it tonight or somewhere tomorrow. The post will be called ‘3000% funded’

@wakabayashi Maybe 5 merchants are using it in the beginning. However to more people switch to TB the more will using it. Form the sales of the advanced search module in the PS addons store (5000+) one can expect that there is a demand for such a module (that is only the sales of the PS addonsstore and not the direct sales from there own store)

@davidp and the businessplan of PS is what ? As i see it, it is making money at the expense of the merchants. For example: they have various types of partners (bronze, silver and gold). I dont know what the creteria are to get one of these titles, but from my experiense it has nothing to do with quality of the modules or the service that is provided. To me it looks like the more you pay the more premium you get. ( i could be wrong but this is from my experience) You won’t believe how often i’ve asked a question to PS or a developer and after some years are still waiting for an answer. Maybe @mdekker could have communicated better about how the ES development is going, but i’ve no doubt in my mind that he is doing what he can to make a high quality module. All in all i thing it is a chicken and egg problem. I’m willing to take a bet and hope that if curent users contribute by becoming a patron TB will mature and has a bright future.

@tomik am not sure but i could be me :frowning2: Changed creditcards. If it is me than will of course fix this

You will not believe how much money i invested/lost because of badly programmed modules / incompatible modules and theme and buying module in order to get basic functionality that should have been standard in PS. I really hope TB has a future. Otherwise people will learn the hard way.

@wakabayashi Thanks for your reply. I think if merchants can't afford $10 a month as patron, they they have to seriously have to wonder if they even should start a shop. I am a small shop too, but i think it is my obligation to support as patron. Now it is for $ 10 but when i'll make more money i'll support more. I'm not a programmer so this is the least i can do to support and really think other should do also. My second post will be about the Elastic Search project an crowd funding software in general Sorry, just saw I repeated something you said about forgetting e-commerce if you can't afford some money

19 Patrons ?! This is the first one of a two-part post. I thought long and hard about the title and ended up with this title. Before I explain the title I first would like to give some background about myself. I have a store in which I sell board games. Several years ago, and after a long comparison of various e-commerce platforms, I decided to use Prestashop. These last couple of years I invested several thousands of dollars on modules (or updates of modules) and hiring developers. For me, PS lacks essential modules such as a good search/filter module, review module, blog module and some other. I also invested in a theme (Warehouse) I bought the modules from various developers. Due to the fact that often module conflicted with each other and/or with the theme I had to hire developers to solve the problems (I'm a total nitwit in regard to programming). To me, e-commerce platforms must be feature rich (or has the intention to be), actively maintained and bug must be resolved in a timely manner. From what I read on the TB site the maintainers of TB have all these intentions (whether is the actual software by providing high-quality content through blog posts). That's when I decided to switch to TB and hire @mdekker to do the switch for me. What has all of the above to do with the title? From what I read on the forum I think there are a lot of op people that are not satisfied with PS and already switched to TB or have the intention to do so. Thus we all benefit if the maintainers can devote as much as time as possible to maintain and enhance TB. Therefore I find unbelievable that there are only 19 patrons. I think that everybody is using on a 'production' store (or has the intention to do so) should become a patron. Also, developers who provide paid services and based on TB should become a patron. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT DO CONTRIBUTE BIG TIME TO TB BY SOLVING BUGS/CODING ETC. Hover, I do think that there are a lot more people than 19 that use TB or provide services based on TB AND do not contribute in another way. Therefore I would like to urge these people to become a patron so TB can grow rapidly and become the best e-commerce platform. We will all benefit from it. I would like to end by thanking @mdekker, @lesley and all the others who make TB possible.

@lesley I'm not a lawyer and you are probably right but i find it strange why you can't sell/transfer your rights to use software to someone else.

@mdekker no problem i also joined patreon with a monthly payment.

May Live helper chat is an option. There is also a commercial PS module for it. Haven’t tried it, but i’m considering it.

Hi, I like the navigation to the left. I do have some suggestions: - When i add a product to cart a very small popup will display with the text 'quantity is updated' . I would suggest to change the text in 'your product is added to cart. - In category view (dog/dog-food) i can't add a product directly to cart http://d.pr/i/7PWefS (it looks like it is not available) .in productview i can add product to cart http://d.pr/i/gNtpMc (so it is on stock) - there is an inconsistancy in the category view. Sometime the button 'add to cart' is displayed and sometime not (although the products are in stock Hope this helps

@musicmaster I thought is was just me, but i noticed the same change.

@occam i understand this is the german forum. Thanks for writing also in english ?? If you did not do that than i could not have followed the discussion.

@daokakao The question is if you really would need all this functionaility in a theme.

@occam "Especially since it might not be that easy to top sophisticated themes like Transformer or Panda". Than you assume the developer of these themes is willing to make them compatible with TB. I've contacted the developer of the transformer theme if he has the intention to make the transformer 4 theme compatible with TB. He said he has not.