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Posts posted by Acer
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Just pinging @datakick to see this thread 😀
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On 3/6/2020 at 5:27 PM, datakick said:
This is exactly the kind of breaking change that we are trying to avoid 🙂
There are many modules (both native and third party) that would be broken with this change. Take elastic search module as an example. This module *expects* that only one feature value exists for every feature. How would this module behave if we allowed multiple feature values? Who knows. There are couple of possible outcomes.
- It could work out of sheer luck -- maybe the module is retrieving the data from the database, and process them, in a way that it would survive such change
- it could throw an error during product indexation
- or it could continue to index only one feature value (the worst scenario, if you ask me --- the module pretends it works correctly, yet search returns incorrect data)
Somebody would have to look into the code of this module and verify it works. We could do that for native modules (however it would take ages to go over all of them), but it's not realistic to expect third party module developers will do the same.
There is actually a free module out there that works OK on thirtybees -- link can be found somewhere on this forum. But that doesn't change anything. It's very dangerous to use such modules, if you ask me
Hi @datakick
As you mentioned, there is a free module that works with Thirtybees - "Advanced Featured Values". I reached out to the developer last year and he is willing to donate this module to the TB Core.
However it's up to the TB team to allocate time / prioritise when and if they will be incorporating this module.
Regarding your concerns + our findings using the Free Advanced Featured Values Module + popular Advanced Search 4 module or with Native Layered Navigation:I understand your concerns that such a module could be "dangerous" especially in relation to Core and ThirdParty modules.
However, we required this feature and had to look for a module that gave us this functionality + we needed it to work with Advanced Search 4.
What's interesting is that our findings so far shows that it works 100% with TB Core and Advanced Search 4 + the native Layered Navigation.
And that the "multiple values for a feature" values are being picked up and "seen" by the 3rd party module (AS4) and layered nav.
So for example, you can have a feature called "paper colour" with the values "red, green, blue, orange" and assign a test product to use "green and blue".
You can then create a filter in Advanced Search 4 or Layered Nav for the "paper colour" feature, it would then see all the values as separate individual values (like red, green, blue, orange).
And show these as a dropdown, input boxes or whatever.
Then, in the front-end, if you select either green or blue separately in the filter search, then our test product would come up as expected (it would not show for the other colours).
So this works for us and our business requirements. I know it's almost impossible to test against every thirdparty and core component, and I haven't tested this with Elastic search yet either.
As the code for this module is open source, perhaps you can check it out and see how it works?
Perhaps it could be "safe" enough to be incorporated into TB Core or it could provide valuable insights on how to possibly solve this problem with TB in a safe way - if you guys had to code a solution from scratch.
My point is that "multiple values for a feature" is a feature that imo should be part of TB natively.
Or at least you guys can use this module as an add on and update it if needs be for like PHP 7.4++ compatibility in the future.
For those that are interested in using the free "Advanced Features" module (multiple values for a feature), you can see this thread (contains installation steps plus minor fixes):
https://forum.thirtybees.com/topic/3456-multiplefeatures/?do=findComment&comment=30387 -
20 minutes ago, datakick said:
The idea behind tb project is still the same - to maintain compatibility, and have stable and bug free product. Feature development was never a big part of the mix. But that's ok, as tb core is already feature rich.
Of course, sometimes breaking compatibility changes have to happen. Smarty upgrade is an excellent example -- we had to upgrade smarty library to newer version, because old version was not compatible with php 7.2.
Thanks for the feedback @datakick It's reassuring, thank you.
Speaking of features: I may as well chance it here: any ideas or plans for "Multiple values for a feature" feature?
I see even PS 1.7 has that now... -
33 minutes ago, toplakd said:
I've tried Shopware, Gambio, XT-Commerce and few others, each for few days. Mainly from european developers.
Thinking of European developers, have you heard of Oxid CE?
At one stage back in the day when I was evaluating different e-commerce platforms, I seriously considered Oxid Community Edition.
It was simple, feature rich and blazing fast. At least back then and with my initial tests. Not sure how it stacks up today - but I see it's still around and alive and well.
Unfortunately there was no compatible payment gateway plugin for my country and we landed up going with Magento instead (lol and what fun! sad joke...)
Oxid CE
https://www.oxid-esales.com/en/why-oxid/
https://oxidforge.org/en/#top
https://demoshop.oxid-esales.com/community-edition/index.php?lang=1&
https://demoshop.oxid-esales.com/community-edition/admin/index.php?cl=login&redirected=1Live site example: https://www.schiesser.com/
Years later I heard about PS and after lots of research decided on going with PS 1.6 - only to find when we were ready to pull the trigger that PS 1.7 was happening.
After reading some reviews and after some frustration, and out of desperation I decided to look for a PS 1.6 fork and voila: Thirtybees 😀 -
7 minutes ago, toplakd said:
enjoying life or making 2 more kids.
2 more kids = no time for anything else 😁
Thanks for the feedback @toplakd
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13 hours ago, toplakd said:
I started 10 years ago with PS 1.3.8 something. During years versions have upgraded and new functions came in, old ones stopped working.
Modules and themes were sometimes not compatible anymore. And yet shops have survived, moved forward, upgraded to new versions.
People bought new modules, bought new themes. Some have migrated - myself included.
So at the end, world will still spin if at some point TB decides and goes further away from deprecated 1.6 PS.
Thanks @toplakd it's reassuring to hear this from someone who has played this game for a while with Presta and have gone through the evolutions a few times.
What's also nice to know is that you seem to be sticking with Presta-tech (for lack of a better term) and its continuation with Thirtybees.
I assume this is because it's the best option, if it's not, then can you please recommend others that you find as capable and feature rich? Like which tech would you switch to if TB was no longer an option?Also...
Although @toplakd 's comments have been reassuring, respected and appreciated, it's from a fellow merchant and dev. However...
What I would like to see is actual feedback from the TB team / senior dev or team lead - about PS 1.6 compatibility plans and plans in general for TB.
It's been oddly quiet from the guys -- there was a time until recently that they were involved with the community and communicated here and participated in discussions.
Has this changed?
Can you guys (the TB team and dev lead) please join the conversation and provide some feedback as well? -
20 minutes ago, Briljander said:
But this is not only Warehouse theme, I have more modules that only focuses on new releases for 1.7 and I do think they will increase in the future. That's my biggest concern.
Indeed, fair point. Same concern here. As long as TB has 1.6 support, and our 1.6 modules continue to work and we're happy with them as they are (no new features) - then we should be ok, imo.
For a while at least...
Lol, maybe TB should have a container or sandbox for PS 1.7 module support? (joke joke).
Or maybe better still, maybe TB should fork 1.7 and call it TB 1.7 (LOL)
= Either way, this way we can continue to have access to a large marketplace of modules 😂😀 -
14 hours ago, Briljander said:
Yeah, this is already reality. As an example Warehouse theme is only focusing on 1.7 and I have more modules focusing on 1.7. The problem is that they don't even consider TB either cause it's too small project. Makes it very expensive to maintain them by own developers.
Hi. Yeah, but you don't need Warehouse 😀
Thankfully, one of the best and insanely feature rich and customisable PS themes, Panda, has been updated for TB and is actively maintained by the Theme developer @Jonny
Which is great and it gives you the "AAA" quality theme that you need for TB that is actively maintained and updated.-
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16 hours ago, toplakd said:
You still have to understand, that thirty bees is open source free of charge software, no matter if based on prestashop or any other platform.
Fixes and improvements behind it are mostly not paid if one could calculate all the hours spent.
Heck, even on paid solution shops (monthly or yearly subscription) many things sometimes are not working as they should, or there are bugs which are not fixed for extended amount of time.
So bitching over something that is free of charge is not a good thing.
If you look at PS. They said end of support for 1.6, please move to 1.7 and pay for some basic modules that were free in 1.6.
Even prestashop evolved during the years. I started with 1.3.8 and they moved on with versions as things had to be fixed until they said its time for something totally new and brought out 1.7.
Once you will sell for couple of millions per year than you can have your own software team which will work on your own custom shop platform.
1.6 is now obsolete, and if new futures and bugfixes in TB will break some of the obsolete compatibility, then so be it.
You have to understand, that not many developers are willing to change/fix their 1.6 themes (which also include some bugs) to the latest fixes, as its easier to milk the money as long as it goes, as they are already selling new 1.7 version of their theme.
If one can not afford to spend 200-300 $/€ yearly for maintaining the shop, than its time to quit internet business and going to some daily job.
Thanks @toplakd for the great feedback and insight.
My concern was that we've invested time and money into our TB stores, and required some reassurance that our critical modules (like the payment gateway, Panda and many other PS 1.6 modules) would not break in a year to 2 from now with future TB updates (like maybe TB drops majority of PS 1.6 support for example).
Essentially, I'm trying to gauge the health of the platform with it's current direction and updates - especially in relation to PS 1.6 compatibility.
We certainly do not want to re-platform to another platform any time soon.
And I definitely do not want to go to my CEO after all the time spent learning TB, developing, buying modules, building the site, and before launch telling him that maybe it was for nothing and TB wasn't the right choice...
It won't go down well.
Also if we had to re-platform...
Unfortunately with the modules that we're using at the moment, the most natural platform would be PS 1.7 (!) - and that is something I'd like to avoid at all costs if possible.
PS 1.7 is just a crazy complete mess and would create major problems for us down the line anyway. From what I can see. And that's why we chose TB for our projects (we wanted 1.6 initially).
So no... If TB can maintain PS 1.6 compatibility as much as possible going forward, then it's still our first and best choice.
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15 minutes ago, led24ee said:
Some will also understand that nothing is eternal and will be able to determine their next steps based on it. But some are hoping that maybe this current situation will be forever.
Hey Windows 10 still runs XP programs - so what are you talking about? It's called a foundation. Yes the stuff on top evolves, true. And everything changes, yes.
However, in the thousands of years we've been building houses, the shape outside and inside and look and feel has changed many times. But - you still build a house on a foundation.
If you don't have this basic principle... So a solid foundation can stand the test of time and constant evolution on the outside...
Many buildings from thousands of years ago are still standing today because of this principle. Just look at the Hagia Sophia. It became a Mosque, but was built as a cathedral initially. Lol, it evolved again, and is actually a museum now.
It's changed on the outside and "evolved", but its foundation is still the same and it's still standing. It's like 1,483 thousand years old! -
6 minutes ago, wakabayashi said:
So really don't worry too much. You have anyway no alternative 😆
Hahaha - that's reassuring 😂 "Don't worry, there's no alternative." So just accept you're pretty screwed and carry on until you hit the cliff 😎
5 minutes ago, toplakd said:So for now, PS 1.6 Paypal module has to do its job.
Yeah in terms in payment gateways - the one I use is for PS 1.6 as well - and will unlikely be updated for TB. No built-in TB one for that.
So hence my concern.Also would be nice if the team could say something here as well...
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10 minutes ago, wakabayashi said:
@Theo You are argumenting as ps 1.6 would be an alive project. It will die sooner or later. Devs won't upgrade their 1.6 modules at some point (I believe some devs already left or focus only on 1.7).
But as an example: in our country there soon will be a new way of invoicing. It will happen with QR Code. If I am lucky, there will still be a ps dev that says: "oh ok, 1.6 will still bring enough revenue. I will publish a new module." but what, if not? We are living in digital age. Time is moving fast. What if browser come up with new rules? What if a new php version isn't compatible with 1.6 modules? TB is now great, but if there is no plan to move forward, the project will die for sure.
In Short: The 1.6 modules support gives tb a basement right now, but it won't save tb for the future. AGAIN: Nobody said, that this basement should be errupted now for no reason.
Thanks @wakabayashi and @toplakd for the reply. I'm just curious what the plans are for PS 1.6 compatibility in the future?
Like if that foundation will be removed and when? So will TB still be compatible in principle with the best and well written / correctly written PS 1.6 module in a year or two from now?
Obviously provided that that module is latest PHP version compatible?
I know it's difficult to predict. I'm just curious if there is a Road map. And while we're on the subject: "Multiple Values for a Feature in Core" ? What's happening with that?
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18 minutes ago, wakabayashi said:
@Theo You are too nervous. Nobody stated that 1.6 compability will be given up soon. And as you stated yourself, the modules are working right now.
The point @toplakd wanted to make (and I completly agree on it). This project has to move forward. This is done with so much attention, that almost every 1.6 ps module is working out of the box. But seriously this project is now 3 years old. The most of the 1.6 ps merchant's now won't switch over. They have had enough time. How long do you wanna wait for them?
Btw: I use the advanced search 4 module too. It's feature rich, but actually crap. It's slows down your shop so much... Look at @toplakd shop. He has a very slim setup without many external modules. He doesn't even need the smarty cache to have a super fast website. When it comes to feature values. I propose since years, that multiple values should be supported from the core. External module don't help here much as the multiple values won't be used by other external modules then...
Am I really too nervous or do I not have a point? Will these modules work in Bleeding edge and future versions? I'm currently running on 1.1.0.
Thirtybees needs the existing PS 1.6 modules to work. It just doesn't have a large enough developer base and store to fill that gap.
Advanced Search 4 is not crap. Latest version is working very fast on our store - and its features are a business requirement.
In terms of "Multiple features for a value" come on? When was it proposed, more than 3 years ago and still nothing? Hence a free PS 1.6 module that works great.
I even got the developer to reach out to TB and donate it to the Core... but no, not priority to implement - @datakick confirmed this.
I mean even PS 1.7 has Multiple values for a feature now...
And yes, you can do a lot with "vanilla TB" - but other modules are there to fill unique and other business requirements. Not every need will be met with vanilla TB.
TB is built on the PS 1.6 foundation. Many people rely on PS 1.6 themes and modules and need to know that these will work going forward.
Like in future TB 1.1.4 for example. I mean, you can still run some Win XP / 2000 programs in Windows 10. No need to destroy the foundation on every evolution...
Would be great if we could also get some feedback from the team. -
20 hours ago, toplakd said:
It was to expect that sooner or later compatibility with PS 1.6 will start loosing it's ground, as if you want to go forward you have to make some cuts and decisions.
Wow. This comment is very disconcerting. And I don't believe that I'm the only one in the community that feels like this.
My face felt like it went a little pale when I read this... Cuts??
The Point: TB is PS 1.6
The entire point of TB was to take care of the thousands of PS 1.6 stores that were suddenly left adrift by Presta with the 1.7 shift.
And to provide a better PS 1.6 than the actual 1.6 and continue with the PS 1.6 improvements and bug fixes and new PHP versions etc.
And to be largely compatible with most existing 1.6 modules and themes. Essentially a continuation of PS 1.6.
This is the very reason merchants and developers migrated over to TB from 1.6 in the first place.
For the most part, it was a painless process.We need a solid foundation on which to build
We don't need shifting sands. We need stability and certainty and backwards compatibility.
Most stores have external third-party 1.6 modules that were designed for the original PS 1.6 and that work just fine with TB 1.1.0.
If these modules do not work with a later version of TB, then the stores will grind to a halt. With no TB alternatives...
For example:
Advanced Search 4 - great PS 1.6 version - lotsa people use it. If it doesn't work - major deal breaker. The built in layered navigation is not a suitable substitute...
Panda theme (even though it's been updated to 1.1.0) - contains great modules that come with the package, like: Mega Menu, ST Easy Content, ST Blog, ST Related Products, etc.
+ Revolution slider (packaged with Panda). And yes, it beats the Community theme hands down in many many ways. $75? Worth it and more.
+ Advanced Feature Values (multiple values for a feature - free module, created for PS 1.6, works in TB).
+ Some great little modules by @Nemo (mass tax rule update, etc) and Vekia (Hook creator) and many more.
Like on this list: https://thirtybees.com/partners/compatible-modules/
If this all of a sudden doesn't work in TB 1.1.2+ for example, my store and lots of other stores will be dead in the water.
PS 1.6 module compatibility:
Losing PS 1.6 module compatibility is not ok and will cause merchants and developers to migrate away from TB unfortunately.
As the whole point of them coming here would be nullified.
It feels like the initial point of the project may be getting lost. And one day, we as developers and merchants will see TB 1.1.3, and won't be able to upgrade.
The nett result is that merchants will be leaving in droves. If this happens TB will die.
And while it's dying its user base will dwindle, and it will be seen as just another 'niche' project until its eventual slow, sad and painful death.Somehow it feels like a silent f u to the merchants and developers. If this happens we will be left in the lurch.
Like the carpet is suddenly pulled out from under our feet..
It will almost be as bad as what happened with the Magento 1 to Magento 2 story.
Hundreds of thousands of stores completely 'abandoned' by Magento - because upgrading to Magento 2 easily is virtually impossible due to change of architecture and module incompatibilities.
And Presta? PS 1.6 to PS 1.7 - I don't even have to mention the complete f'up that that was? I mean I'm typing this in the official Thirtybees forum after all, no?The point is - I'm not saying that our stuff is not working or that this is the TB plan...
I'm just making the point that we want PS 1.6 compatibility going forward.
That's why we are here. We believe in TB and have spend money and hundreds of hours creating stores for it. We appreciate the effort the team and community have put into it.
I for one, want to know that as far as the modules I'm using today is concerned, when they're running on TB 1.1.4+ in a few years from now, the modules think that they're running on PS 1.6.
And everything works as it should.
I'd love to hear from the TB team what they think about this and I think some clarity would be great for all of us.
@Traumflug @lesley @datakick -
Hi @rubben1985, thanks. This is just so that @datakick has a clearer idea of the issue you've been getting in Panda with TB Bleeding edge.
And to be clear, Panda has been updated to work in 1.1.0 which is what I'm using. And this problem appears to be in Panda with TB 1.1.x Bleeding edge... -
Also @rubben1985 can you detail your issue here again as well please?
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9 hours ago, datakick said:
What cache are you talking about? Smarty? Full page cache?
More detail and specifics about the problem here:
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On 2/28/2020 at 9:03 PM, rubben1985 said:
Not solved yet. @Jonny seems he is not working right now at the office due to the current coronavirus situation. He told me he would investigate it when he will be come back to the office
Thanks @rubben1985 for the update. Really appreciate it, I'm sure that others that are using Panda and have a concern about next TB release appreciate this also.
Had a feeling that Jonny's delay or silence could be Corona related. Phew, at least he appears to be ok. May it stay that way. -
On 2/28/2020 at 9:36 PM, datakick said:
Talking about bugs on forum is not bug reporting. Forum is (should be) primarily used for discussion between users, and not as a communication channel with developers.
When you find a bug, please file a github issue. Try to describe it as best as you can, come up with reprosteps, etc... That way it will be tracked, and it will not get lost in the forum archives
Sorry, but your comment does not make any sense.
Bizarrely, the forum is where most people come to report bugs (as you can see in most forum posts), and as you put it "have a communication channel with the developers".
It's also where the developers have assisted us normal users to sort out problems and bugs on many occasions (yourself included).
These solutions in some cases get filed by the developers as issues in Github and hopefully get sorted out and included in the next release.
Also, if what you say is true, then why did you create a forum post specifically for Bug hunts for the next 1.1.1 release?
And funny that, why is there a Bug Report Topic in the Forums?
And, maybe if the forum isn't a "communication channel" with the developers, then maybe you can direct us to the correct communication channel for the developers?
Is there a Slack channel we could join for example? -
30 minutes ago, wakabayashi said:
I didn't wanna say, that it doesn't get fixed, if only one person reports it. But the past has showed, if only one person reports a bug, it is often caused by server configuration, external module or external theme. Now with your report, this case became much more unlikely.
To make clear: I didn't want to offend you or something. We are always thankful for clear bug reports 🙂 Right now, I believe only datakick is fixing bugs.
No not at all, no offence taken 🙂 However, imo, experience has also shown that sometimes it's the one "outlier guy" who finds a "very real" bug that no one else has seen before.
Maybe a unique use-case. So no, I feel that each "bug report" whether it's reported by many people or just by one should be taken seriously and not just written off to "Server issue / external module". It's silly, because it's a very real bug that could get ignored.
Only to blow up in everyone's faces later down the line when 1.1.1 gets released, when everyone catches up and uses the faulty feature all of a sudden and "boom".Also, while we're talking about this - I've noticed somewhat worryingly that even if multiple people (i.e. more than 1 person) reports a bug, it seems that all we hear from the team is silence / crickets. It's like the team fell off the planet or something...
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Same error here as the original post. Not sure if it is actually Panda related though...
Now that it's more that one person that is experiencing this problem, maybe it would get looked into or seen as a 'real issue'? -
17 minutes ago, wakabayashi said:
Please use search, before you open a new thread:
It's not only good for the forum. Also for you. If multiple persons report the same bug, it is quite clear, that it's a real issue 🙂
Ok, fair point. However, you're hinting that if it's only one person, it gets ignored. As I see there's still not proper solution to Alan's post on February 6.
What's bizarre is that I don't think it's a Panda issue. Everything was fine and then seemingly randomly when I tried to create a new Category this error occurred.
Also, it seems that there's been a similar problem and even an older one in PS 1.7, 1.6 going back years. Seems like one of those deep / unresolved errors...https://www.prestashop.com/forums/topic/952960-backend-8-undefined-index-category-error/
Maybe someone can provide a solution? -
Hi
Running TB 1.1.0 (with latest Panda):
I'm getting the following strange errors when I try to create a new Category in Admin / Back-end
I've made no changes to AdminCategoriesController.php.Notice on line 638 in file AdminCategoriesController.php [8] Undefined index: category Notice on line 647 in file AdminCategoriesController.php [8] Undefined index: medium
The only category related thing I did recently was removing some duplicated main categories that somehow got created on CSV Import...
Your help is appreciated in advance. -
15 hours ago, Kashir2000 said:
I'm against on the other side. It's a great feature. It does not shine without heavy traffic. But all modules that add this option mainly break shops. So it's good its implemented as core feature. Such complicated things should not be done via modules. Or core should be designed with that type of module in mind.
Totally agree. It should stay in Core. One of the main features that used to be "advertised" for TB was its great and fast caching and Page cache functionality.
This is not just for "advanced" users, and provides an immediate and measurable site speed boost for most sites (including those that use custom templates), with no issues in most cases.
+ Very simple and easy to configure. I still use it and I'm sure many others still use it too.
Shop Feedback
in English
Posted · Edited by Theo
Hi
Looking good 😀 Well done 😀 Just goes to show how nice a site you can build with vanilla (built-in theme) Thirtybees.
I like that you're using product attributes and combinations as well + "personalisation text".
Also, if you'd like to have a nice zoom effect on the product image, you can use the built-in JqZoom module:
Admin -> Preferences -> Products -> Scroll down to product page -> "Enable JqZoom instead of Fancybox on the product page" = On.
Also, not sure if you know this already, there is a setting that enhances Site Security as well:
Admin -> Preferences -> "Increase front office security' = Yes.
Hmm Regarding "CMS Pages not showing on the footer":
You can use TB's custom HTML block to show content on the footer: Admin -> HTML Block. Simply create an entry and select the Hook / position that you want this entry to be displayed on (Footer).
Just two other things I picked up:
To fix: go to: Admin -> Modules -> Search for Captcha
Ensure that it's version 1.1.2 (if lower, then do update).
Register with Google recaptcha and enter site recaptcha keys + enable for User Registration, Admin and Contact form.
Enjoy and all the best of luck with your shop and your business. May you continue using Thirtybees and may your shop be prosperous! 😀😀