nickon Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @rubben1985 said in I will say goodbye: @nickon said in I will say goodbye: @MockoB Totally agree. I don't use PayPal in any of my (PS) shops but even in PS PayPal seems to be problematic. I suggest @zimmer-media to buy a module instead of setting the whole shop again. As for the rest we have talked about it on other topics. Funny thing is I did some research online yesterday to get to know PS 1.7 and see if it really is that bad. I did not find a single good review in the 2 hours I spend. TB has a future but the team has to change things around NOW Hi @nickon Are PS marketplace Paypal modules compatible with TB? I just migrated to TB after 9 months (lack of time) to see PayPal present problems. I know most of modules are compatible but seeing that TB developed his own instead of using the official one for PS, makes me wonder if there is some kind of incompatibility. IF they are compatible, they are not expensive. Another question is that only 1 short comment from only 1 of TB creators is not normal for this type of """crisis""". Makes me wonder too....
DRMasterChief Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 Sorry to hear that, zimmer-media , but honestly i have to say that maybe i can understand this only for 50%. Do you really need Stripe ? I dont use or try Stripe, so i didnt know if it works or not. But as far as i know and see, it does not bring much more possibilities compared to Paypal and also the fees are the same (would be for our shop in the case if we use Stripe). Paypal module should work for TB !? I try it at the moment in our TB-testshop and there are no problems at the moment. Maybe there are other things (modules, themes) which couse a problem in your shop with Paypal? When i compare my situation with PS 1.6x and TB 1.0.3 i am definitely on a much better way with TB in shorter time. I bought a theme a few months ago (about 130 EUR) and test everything with this theme until it works (as a guest, as a customer with login and as admin). I have to say that i also look at PS forum or PS solutions when a problem occures, most of the solutions can be also used in TB and i dont have to nag the forum here :) And that experience give me the hope that i can go on with TB and that it will not end. I also have some ideas about paid modules, income and so on, but this is not the thread for this.....
nickon Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @rubben1985 said in I will say goodbye: @nickon said in I will say goodbye: @MockoB Totally agree. I don't use PayPal in any of my (PS) shops but even in PS PayPal seems to be problematic. I suggest @zimmer-media to buy a module instead of setting the whole shop again. As for the rest we have talked about it on other topics. Funny thing is I did some research online yesterday to get to know PS 1.7 and see if it really is that bad. I did not find a single good review in the 2 hours I spend. TB has a future but the team has to change things around NOW Hi @nickon Are PS marketplace Paypal modules compatible with TB? I just migrated to TB after 9 months (lack of time) to see PayPal present problems. I know most of modules are compatible but seeing that TB developed his own instead of using the official one for PS, makes me wonder if there is some kind of incompatibility. IF they are compatible, they are not expensive. https://addons.prestashop.com/en/482-payment-card-wallet?pab=1& I guess some on those should work. But I don't use paypal to know more. I used paypal for a short amount of time (the paid one) and had nothing but problems. Since paypal is not that popular in greece I removed it
Generaal Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 Sad to read, zimmer-media. But I think, every ecommerce platform have problems, in the one or other way. I have disable Paypal payments in my live shop, they have so many districtions set to me, no erotic artikles, and so on, no DVD's, no Books and so on. Maybe you have to go with Targetpay or Mollie, ore some other payment options, to solve your payment problem on the moment.
DRMasterChief Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 ...and maybe zimmer-media - can you tell us to which solution you will change? If PS, hopefully you know about the new business model which will be introduced in the next time....
rubben1985 Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @drmasterchief said in I will say goodbye: ...and maybe zimmer-media - can you tell us to which solution you will change? If PS, hopefully you know about the new business model which will be introduced in the next time.... just curious. something new in addition to removing the basic features and make them non-free?
Beeta Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @drmasterchief said in I will say goodbye: new business model ?!?!?!
Mediacom87 Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 This topic is exactly the same on all community. 1559/5000 Some people are disappointed by the errors appearing on their shop and thus accuse others for these concerns. But, like all other open source sites, TB is the fruit of sharing experiences and solutions. On the other hand, in an ecommerce project, we have to do to users who live by the use of the solution and do not accept the fact of not having a perfect solution for them, whereas this solution must be developed for billion configurations and uses. This does not excuse mistakes but can explain them. Personally, when I encounter a problem, it is that I did my job as shop manager and I did not perform the necessary tests upstream to avoid planting my livelihood. We're talking about millions of lines of code, more than the program that sent a man to the moon, so yes, there may be errors and it may have escaped all possible controls. This is the principle. If you adopt the life of an open source project you must also learn the constraints of which the first is to do your tests before any production is done (I never do, but I have the ability to correct quickly). Here we are talking about payment modules, update, evolution. Currently, I still use PS version 1.6.0.9 and I do not know if I will evolve my version, since I think it works pretty well for me. It's also a learning, if it works, why change? I fully understand the feelings of some users, but often I noticed that it was more related to a lack of competence in the management of an ecommerce project than in the tool itself because if you want to manage his site alone must acquire all the skills, as we all would to open a business in the real world. I try to invest on the project at my level and my capacity, but after giving more than 10 years and dozens of thousands of posts on PS, I do less than many others in the community.
Generaal Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 I think, that it is not a good idea to go forward with new relaeses, when the previous are containing a lot of bugs and customer frustration. The core business for many shop owners are to realize sells, without frustrations. Too many shop owners want to install to much twinkels and bell's and hope that they will sell more. Most of the times is less, more!
MockoB Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 The problem here are not the bugs, all of us know there are and will be bugs with the software. The main issue is with the support, there are ppl who report crusal bugs, which are ruin their business and there is no one to help them.
nickon Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @MockoB No the problem is not the bugs. Nobody can DEMAND free support from a free project. If you choose a free plaform nothing is quaranteed. If support is crusial to the merchants then you pay to fix it or find a payed platform like shoppify or 3dcart The problem here is the lack of communication, I guess that @zimmer-media main frustration is that nobody helps. It is the silence of @mdekker that causes the "problem". So we will have to wait and see what happens
Mediacom87 Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @generaal a realease is for debugging. An update from 1.0.3 to 1.0.4 it's only to debugging. TB should not make the same mistakes as PS by adding features on micro release. Currently I intervene on the site of a client on PS. And strangely he has worries. But what about a client whose computer pro directly modifies the files of the heart instead of overloading? Personally I will take the time free to watch the changes made and if it's great anything, I will refuse to go further in the delivery, because he has already refused to disable all caches while we know very well that PS handles them very badly. So, before crying wolf, some people should question themselves.
yaniv14 Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 Hi every one. Sorry to join late to the conversation. But from what I understand zimmer-media is saying: """ I have issues with my free open source tb shop, I don't want to pay for bug fixes... and I demand the people behind tb to fix it for me quick """ This is what I understand.... You know that TB is selling 6 hours support service (https://store.thirtybees.com/services/6-hour-support-package) and they will probably be able to fix all you issue in that time. But you prefer to blame lesley and michael, for you loosing money on your shop, when you are not even offering to buy paid service from them. Am I missing anything? Am I wrong?
MockoB Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 You are missing one thing, he is reporting bugs since months. And those are native module issues, it's like people will have to pay for solving all prestashop issues. Do you think that every person who experience same issue will have to pay for fixing it? I know you contribute code from time to time and you are closer to the project, please sheare your opinion about its' future. Do you think it's fine to just leave it without any support or assistance for so long?
Mediacom87 Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @mockob We talk about community in every way, but when we are not satisfied we say that there is a concern for others. Not sure of this analysis. If I'm a developer and I'm giving my time to solve someone else's problem, I volunteer. Basically it is that I am paid my time by ... the thanks (quite rare in this environment). If we do not know how to solve a problem and no volunteer is available, we pay a person to correct the problem and if we have a minimum of education, we send the solution free to others, as a developer would do volunteer, since his time with his knowledge is an expense for him. Personally I am almost no help on the PS forum because the applicants are unbearable, make no effort, do not read, do not seek and do not listen. In this kind of project it is essential to go beyond his little person to bring a more global analysis. TB is not perfect but it's up to all of these members to make the effort to make it better. We must do better than PS, because PS is a very good solution that was misled by marketing and investors. I have been running for almost 20 years and if TB makes the right choices in its development, it may very well become the reference solution in open source. But this can only happen if the community works instead of criticizing only the analysis of its own case.
nickon Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @yaniv14 if @mdekker (or anyone else for that matter) posted a reply saying "i can give priority in fixing the problems you have with xxxxx amount of money" then you would be correct. But both are apsent. So when you have a problem and no developers reply then you get frustrated
yaniv14 Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @MockoB The fact that you report a bug doesn't mean that it will be fixed immediately, it is an open source project. There are only 55 open issues on github, and most of them are already fixed or not really a bug. And what so bad if one person will actually pay for a fix in a native module? It is much better solution than buying an outside PS module for $150. The same way I volunteer to fix bugs and spend many hours without getting paid, zimmer-media can contribute by paying for a fix and than contribute that fix to the rest of the community. Whats the different between me spending 10 hours to fix bugs and someone else to pay $500 ~? I charge my customers $70 a hour (in my country) for development. Do you prefer Michael to spend 5 hours a day here in the community forum just to answer your questions instead of working in those 5 hours? btw: I have 2 working shops with TB and Paypal and I dont have any issue with the module.
yaniv14 Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @nickon Can you point me to the place that says or shows "We Michael and Lesley will always be available 24/7 to fix your bugs free of charge no matter what we do or where we are"? The problem is that Lesley and Michael spend 80% of their time in the last year on this project and they do deserve to rest, go on vacation. do other things with their lives. They have accomplished in one year allot. I am about to finish my 3rd tb shop (on v1.0.4) and its solid fast, stable and bugs free....... Michael or Lesley will not tell you "if you pay we do it faster", but its just a common sense. They don't get paid yet for work they do on TB, and at the end Lesley need to feed his family, and Michael need to feed himself :-) So I guess that Lesley/Michael will give higher priority to in coming paid jobs, no matter if its related to tb or not
MockoB Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 No @yaniv14 I don't prefer him spending 5 hours answering my questions, but doesn't spend 5 secs for whole month doesn't look right to me and as can see for 80% of the community. And @zimmer-media is one of the ppl here who contributed a lot to the project without even asking a cent! It's not about me at all, I don't even have running th store yet. And believe me it is better to pay once for module and rely on support for every potential bug you will find, than pay for every fix you need. But what I understand, I'm not developer, just end user, who actually pay the money...
MockoB Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 Don't get me wrong, I don't think for a minute that they will have to spend all their time with the project and the community. I got huge respect to everyone who contributed here! But it's just not right, it's not fair to mislead so many ppl.
yaniv14 Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 Can you explain how did you got mislead? Did Lesley ever mentioned that he will be available every time you need some answers? Do you know how hard it is to follow all the posts on this forum? Lesley is receiving mail on every post/reply on the forum. Which mean that he have about 100-200 mails to check every day just on the forum, if he needs to reply to all of them or even just join the conversation... i guess is day is gone. Can you compare how many time he was here for you and others in the last year, compare to how many times he was absent? p.s. I only mentioned zimmer-media because he started the topic, I know that he contribute allot to the project and I understand that the only reason he started this topic it was because he cares and he's hearts. some one who doesn't care won't post any thing.
vincentdenkspel Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @mockob said in I will say goodbye: but doesn’t spend 5 secs for whole month How do yo know this? The only thing you can know for a fact is that they were not that active on the forum. Maybe they were spending a lot of time to the TB project which is not 'visible' to the community.
MockoB Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @yaniv14 i was mislead that tb will be different than ps, but it is starting to look like ps support already. I was mislead that 1.0.4 had to be release more than a month ago and I may continue but as I told already, it's not about just me. @vincentdenkspel I'm talking just for the forum presence, but if you are asking there aren't also any commits on github more than a month I don't know if there is something behind the curtains but it has to be huge ... time will tell if I'm right or wrong. P.S I don't want to advocate for anybody. I will stop writing in this topic, bacause I already told what I think. I just really hope the project will have future and @zimmer-media will be part of it. Me also :) Good luck to all and sorry if I hurt someone's feelings, it was not intentionally.
Mediacom87 Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @MockoB you put exactly the massage why i never give my free time for PS community. I had hoped that the TB community would be different, but it seems like no, so I guess you have the support you deserve. Personally I do not expect anything from the members of the community, just share the pleasure of being part of something as big as this project can become.
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