ThirtyBees 1.5 OFFICIAL is here!

[elund]

On 10/28/2023 at 5:56 PM, Obi said:

Yeah, last time I tried to "update" panda theme for TB, Jonny wanted to charge me for a whole new license. I guess his idea of a "lifetime license" is ONLY for the version you paid for - updates are considered "upgrades" that one should pay for. He ultimately gave me access to an update, but it did not work, so we have parted ways. I am now working on a TB 1.4.0 site that uses a customized theme based on the Community Default Theme.

When was this last time? He does not demand any money for the newest Panda theme for TB.
Just log in to your account and download it. I can also confirm it works like a charm 🙂

[led24ee]

Now my TB1.5 stopped working. When open Products then after some time You get info that not all tabs are loaded and try again or contact Your server admin. I tried "cache cleaning", browser cookie cleaning, log off-log on and different types of cache settings. So far zero results. I haven't changed anything on my host side. Any ideas ?

[Obi]

25 minutes ago, elund said:

When was this last time? He does not demand any money for the newest Panda theme for TB.
Just log in to your account and download it. I can also confirm it works like a charm 🙂

I'm still done with Panda. The version I attempted to use with the TB platform was Panda v.1.5.5 (I know there was another one, but it would appear I deleted the files - probably because I was pissed.)

I'm in the process of modifying the community-theme for my major production site. I'm already nearly finished deploying a modified version of this theme for my secondary e-commerce site (a lot less products and transactions). While that hasn't been without its issues, I'm not captured by a commercial entity selling "open source" software.

Don't get me wrong, I still pay for code/customizations from time to time, because I don't have the time to write what I want when I want it, but I'm not going to pay multiple times for a "lifetime license" just because there's a technology PUSH to force me into doing this.

Oh Yes, those bugs were related to mobile first modifications in the theme, mostly related to images, BUT they ALSO changed so many style descriptor names, I gave up tracking them all down. They didn't even make an attempt to provide docs or deprecation of any kind for these changes - effectively making my custom css code (only 2 revisions back) of about 2300 lines and just over 860 styles USELESS! under that "new" version.

PPS: Renewing the "support license" was the same cost as purchasing the theme all over again!

Edited October 29, 2023 by Obi

[the.rampage.rado]

13 hours ago, led24ee said:

Now my TB1.5 stopped working. When open Products then after some time You get info that not all tabs are loaded and try again or contact Your server admin. I tried "cache cleaning", browser cookie cleaning, log off-log on and different types of cache settings. So far zero results. I haven't changed anything on my host side. Any ideas ?

Your hosting is probably doing some changes.

[led24ee]

3 hours ago, the.rampage.rado said:

Your hosting is probably doing some changes.

I just talk with them. They have strict rules about patch and upgrade. These are done inside week and never even on Friday. Last patch was done week ago. My problems started on Sunday, so this TB1.5 was working with patches almost week. But error is still present and I can't find anything in log files and this TB 1.5 is test site. I was trying to import CSV files, there are something like 10 000+ products. So I try from zero. If error is gone then it was probably something with databases, they're too big or there is something that is not accepted. I will not destroy current thing, just making new one.

[led24ee]

On 10/27/2023 at 3:58 PM, Smile said:

Its a service / rent fee. To our considerations a very good value for the cost. Just one member and whole team can use it. And some as the purchase module can be big time savers. Also the fee makes it possible to update the modules to the requests and needs of users.

 

Are these modules bounded with one installation ? So You can't use these in another installation ? If yes is there any way to cancel current one and start new one ?

[datakick]

15 minutes ago, led24ee said:

Are these modules bounded with one installation ? So You can't use these in another installation ? If yes is there any way to cancel current one and start new one ?

No, you can connect multiple installations to your account, and you can use premium modules on all of them.

[led24ee]

New installation is working. Previous one still not working as expected. So I'm pretty sure this timeout error is somehow related to database.

[led24ee]

6 minutes ago, datakick said:

No, you can connect multiple installations to your account, and you can use premium modules on all of them.

Then I need some help. I'm unable to work out how to do this.

[datakick]

7 minutes ago, led24ee said:

Then I need some help. I'm unable to work out how to do this.

PM me access to your back office, I can investigate 

[led24ee]

This is weird. Update is done already, but there is still need for update. Even versions are visible.

[Euria]

On 10/28/2023 at 4:56 PM, Obi said:

Yeah, last time I tried to "update" panda theme for TB, Jonny wanted to charge me for a whole new license. I guess his idea of a "lifetime license" is ONLY for the version you paid for - updates are considered "upgrades" that one should pay for. He ultimately gave me access to an update, but it did not work, so we have parted ways. I am now working on a TB 1.4.0 site that uses a customized theme based on the Community Default Theme.

In contrast I am extremely satisfied with the support ST-Themes gave me over the years. And yes, I had to clarify some requests or questions I had for them. They always came up with solutions or suggestion without extra charging me extra. 

I am using Panda and Transformer theme since it's inception on Thirty Bees and it still works fine, even after the latest upgrade to Thirty Bees 1.5.

In all of this I have to note that the level of customisation of the shops we run for our clients is kept to a bare minimum just to keep out of trouble upgrading and save them money. It's a trade-off.   

  

Edited October 30, 2023 by Euria

[Obi]

7 hours ago, Euria said:

In contrast I am extremely satisfied with the support ST-Themes gave me over the years. And yes, I had to clarify some requests or questions I had for them. They always came up with solutions or suggestion without extra charging me extra. 

I am using Panda and Transformer theme since it's inception on Thirty Bees and it still works fine, even after the latest upgrade to Thirty Bees 1.5.

In all of this I have to note that the level of customisation of the shops we run for our clients is kept to a bare minimum just to keep out of trouble upgrading and save them money. It's a trade-off.   

  

I had similar opinions during my first 4 or 5 years using Panda... I passed a number of code fixes and things along to Jonny, but like most "Open Source" operations, I believe it turned into a how can I "push" people to pay more money. But as I said earlier - I'm done with ST-Themes anyway - full stop.

After reading the TB 1.5 new release information - I see the platform going in a direction that is not compatible with my own, so I'll probably just fork 1.4.0 and be done. I'll develop my own theme system using that codebase and that will be all. I'm 60 now, so not far from retirement, which means I'm not interested in all the money being dumped to keep up with the Joneses... and at this point, that's sort of what I see with the "Premium" stuff being rolled into TB 1.5 as well as other issues that should have been addressed in 1.4.0 - which are mostly the good things happening in 1.5. But in the end, I'm not onboard with a number of major changes in 1.5.0 so I'll be ducking out. It's a shame because I did have high hopes for ThirtyBees.

Oh yeah, let's sum this up - I WILL NOT RENT SOFTWARE - NOT NOW - NOT EVER!!! Adobe, Microsoft, and others that started that crap are what drove me to Open Source... now it's procreating like a disease throughout the "open source" community (probably thanks in no small part to companies drove "projects" like CRELoaded and Prestashop). I think this situation is WAY worse than what Adobe and MS did - because people who WANT to see everyone benefit are being USED! You help fix bugs and create top shelf software (mostly) only to have someone else profit off of YOUR work and efforts.
EVERY single piece of software that has gone to the "rent/subscribe" model ends up costing 10x (OR MORE) than what it would cost if you just buy it up front - death by a thousands cuts, and because each cut isn't all that painful, you don't notice it so much... at least not until you bleed out!

[30knees]

3 hours ago, Obi said:

Oh yeah, let's sum this up - I WILL NOT RENT SOFTWARE - NOT NOW - NOT EVER!!! Adobe, Microsoft, and others that started that crap are what drove me to Open Source... now it's procreating like a disease throughout the "open source" community (probably thanks in no small part to companies drove "projects" like CRELoaded and Prestashop). I think this situation is WAY worse than what Adobe and MS did - because people who WANT to see everyone benefit are being USED! You help fix bugs and create top shelf software (mostly) only to have someone else profit off of YOUR work and efforts.
EVERY single piece of software that has gone to the "rent/subscribe" model ends up costing 10x (OR MORE) than what it would cost if you just buy it up front - death by a thousands cuts, and because each cut isn't all that painful, you don't notice it so much... at least not until you bleed out!

Some comments:

• Are we renting tb itself or the non-essential premium modules?
• Would you be willing to pay a large up-front sum (say a lifelong membership) instead of renting?
• Have you considered that the buying vs renting depends on the nature of the software? Some types of software need to be maintained/kept current. Other types not. Also, there are opportunity costs involved: Would I rather spend 1000 now or 20 every month? This depends in part on what I can do with the money I have now cash in pocket by going the rental route instead of the buying route?
• You're not just renting (after a certain membership level). You're also buying monthly support.
• About one's own work and efforts being used (also) for someone else's profits ... well, that's a different thing. I don't know how I'd feel about this move IF I could and had actually contributed like datakick does. But I can't and I don't. Philosophically, I'm fine with subscription models if you get something back. I'm all for open source but I'm also realistic enough to see that not every open source model is going to survive unless it's driven by at least one person's passion. I don't think anyone here is maintaining their shop because it's a passion independent of economics.

 

 

[Euria]

5 hours ago, Obi said:

I had similar opinions during my first 4 or 5 years using Panda... I passed a number of code fixes and things along to Jonny, but like most "Open Source" operations, I believe it turned into a how can I "push" people to pay more money. But as I said earlier - I'm done with ST-Themes anyway - full stop.

After reading the TB 1.5 new release information - I see the platform going in a direction that is not compatible with my own, so I'll probably just fork 1.4.0 and be done. I'll develop my own theme system using that codebase and that will be all. I'm 60 now, so not far from retirement, which means I'm not interested in all the money being dumped to keep up with the Joneses... and at this point, that's sort of what I see with the "Premium" stuff being rolled into TB 1.5 as well as other issues that should have been addressed in 1.4.0 - which are mostly the good things happening in 1.5. But in the end, I'm not onboard with a number of major changes in 1.5.0 so I'll be ducking out. It's a shame because I did have high hopes for ThirtyBees.

Oh yeah, let's sum this up - I WILL NOT RENT SOFTWARE - NOT NOW - NOT EVER!!! Adobe, Microsoft, and others that started that crap are what drove me to Open Source... now it's procreating like a disease throughout the "open source" community (probably thanks in no small part to companies drove "projects" like CRELoaded and Prestashop). I think this situation is WAY worse than what Adobe and MS did - because people who WANT to see everyone benefit are being USED! You help fix bugs and create top shelf software (mostly) only to have someone else profit off of YOUR work and efforts.
EVERY single piece of software that has gone to the "rent/subscribe" model ends up costing 10x (OR MORE) than what it would cost if you just buy it up front - death by a thousands cuts, and because each cut isn't all that painful, you don't notice it so much... at least not until you bleed out!

In my opinion it is all about choices and objectives. Since I am involved in IT (1991) and in e-commerce (1997) I never ever encountered a piece of software which didn't have technical and/or commercial drawbacks. Technology is always evolving as well as commercial concepts do. 
My approach is to keep it as simple as possible for our clients, our selves and all others involved. If someone wants to have custom work done I always ask to provide me a good explanation, including a solid  financial substantiation. Most of the times we reach satisfactory solutions without custom work.

To end this discussion I want to thank Thirty Bees for heir efforts to keep going the way they do.  

[datakick]

8 hours ago, Obi said:

After reading the TB 1.5 new release information - I see the platform going in a direction that is not compatible with my own, so I'll probably just fork 1.4.0 and be done. I'll develop my own theme system using that codebase and that will be all. I'm 60 now, so not far from retirement, which means I'm not interested in all the money being dumped to keep up with the Joneses... and at this point, that's sort of what I see with the "Premium" stuff being rolled into TB 1.5 as well as other issues that should have been addressed in 1.4.0 - which are mostly the good things happening in 1.5. But in the end, I'm not onboard with a number of major changes in 1.5.0 so I'll be ducking out. It's a shame because I did have high hopes for ThirtyBees.

This is funny.

How does this "Premium stuff" affect you?

Is your OCD acting up because there is a new button in bottom right corner, in a place that was unused before? Well, add 3 line of CSS to your admin override css file to hide it.

Are you mad that there is a new "Premium modules" section in modules overview? Is it so hard to ignore it? Do the other uninstalled, but free, modules in the list trigger you in the same way? If this bother you, kindly create PR request that adds setting option to hide these extra modules. I promise you we will merge it. I just won't waste my time implementing something like that because I don't need it, and I have a lot more pressing issues on hand.

On both 1.4 and 1.5 you have access to the same list of free native modules. Updating to 1.5 will not hinder your options at all. Yet it will give you a lot of bugfixes, performance improvements, security fixes, and couple of new features for free.

And if you opt to become supporter, you will get access to a lot of interesting modules as well. This is strictly optional, nobody is forcing you to do anything.

If you stay on 1.4 you should be fine for now. Just don't update your PHP versions. And be prepared that over the time you will loose access to free modules updates, as the new versions will be using functionality from the core not available in 1.4. And I strongly suggest you at least cherry pick all the security related commits from the 1.5 version. Or you store will be hacked.

[zen]

I can see that times are changing.. I hope it won't become an ego fight too much, I can understand totally Euria point of view, as much as I can get your point datakick..

"if this bother you, kindly create PR request that adds setting option to hide these extra modules. I promise you we will merge it." => I am maybe gonna make this commit to add a button to switch off any connection to external servers if I have time.

"Or you store will be hacked. " => by who ?? how ?? Is that really relevant ? I don't think that scaring people is a good way to help them to upgrade.. Presta does this all the time and it's not going good for them.

[datakick]

42 minutes ago, zen said:

"Or you store will be hacked. " => by who ?? how ?? Is that really relevant ? I don't think that scaring people is a good way to help them to upgrade..

There were a lot of security fixes in 1.5 that closed a lot of holes in the system. A lot of those are relevant for both ps16 and thirty bees, some are thirty bees specific. Some were in modules, some were in back office only, and some were in front office.

Commits in github are kind of a disclosure. Anybody can look and see what was fixed. And anybody can use this information to attack sites running older versions.

I don't know about your experience, but my store is hammered daily by hacking scripts looking for vulnerabilities. Some of those scripts are blind, some of them are not.

 

[led24ee]

2 hours ago, zen said:

"Or you store will be hacked. " => by who ?? how ?? Is that really relevant ? I don't think that scaring people is a good way to help them to upgrade.. Presta does this all the time and it's not going good for them.

If I look my log files then I see about 1000 request per day where someone is trying to insert something in database. Some day more, some day less. I even banned some IP ranges based on country. There was also pretty quiet time when some years ago OHV server farm burn out. There are groups in FB where constantly can read about "help my shop is hacked" or something similar. If this hasn't happened to You, be happy.

[Obi]

On 10/31/2023 at 7:03 AM, datakick said:

. . . If you stay on 1.4 you should be fine for now. Just don't update your PHP versions. And be prepared that over the time you will loose access to free modules updates, as the new versions will be using functionality from the core not available in 1.4. And I strongly suggest you at least cherry pick all the security related commits from the 1.5 version. Or you store will be hacked.

I've been running and programming high profile websites since before osCommerce... I'd have to go back and see when I became responsible for that first hi-profile website (probably around 1996 for the U.S. Government - USAF), but I've been responsible for some very high visibility websites over those years that received millions of visitors monthly if not weekly or in a few cases daily. (NASA, The US Military (including NIPR and SIPR systems), and Coca-Cola are the first ones to come to mind. And yeah, at no time while under MY watch were ANY of those systems ever compromised.) I did not fall for the chicken little "it's for security" claims back then and I won't be goaded into them now. That is NOT to imply that I disregard patches or updates altogether, but I want to see what's being changed before I apply any such patch or update.

Do security issues exist in software - of course they do - virtually ALL software is defective the date it is published - how do you address that? (that's rhetorical) It really depends on a number of factors, but constantly rolling out "updates" which include NON-SECURITY related "enhancements" is EXACTLY the wrong approach, and in many cases careless coding trying to roll this crap out is what causes many of those updates to FAIL - SOMETIMES CATASTROPHICALLY! . . . Leaving the merchant screaming for help - because down-time is lost money for every merchant.

I'm going to inject a KUDO (sort of) here for ThirtyBess before I make my next statement... I can see a lot of work has been done on the codebase, but I also still see a good number of simple crap issues like spelling errors for objects that really should have been FIXED as part of the 1st or 2nd evolution of distribution that weren't - "statut" is one that immediately comes to mind instead of "status"... one of numerous signs of lazy coding practices that you inherited, but still haven't fixed. 😩

 . . . The very issue of Software Quality Control/Assurance is something I just recently experienced with a couple of ThirtyBees module updates because I allowed myself to get lazy and ASSUMED the updates had been fully validated (shame on me). . . A mistake I WILL NOT MAKE AGAIN!

As for the security stuff... The Sky is NOT always falling, and it really irritates me when people use that behavior to "push" or goad other people to do things those people would not otherwise do of their own volition.

BACKUPS ARE YOUR FRIEND!!! Take them often... (and make sure you can also restore them! . . . in whole or in part.)

[rdw]

upgraded my test install to the latest running PHP 8.2 and prior to update email was configured and working

Prior to upgrade was fully configured using SMTP, post upgrade

• Your server is NOT sending emails. Please install some email transport module and select it for use.

Now post upgrade there is nothing in email transport

[the.rampage.rado]

8 minutes ago, rdw said:

upgraded my test install to the latest running PHP 8.2 and prior to update email was configured and working

Prior to upgrade was fully configured using SMTP, post upgrade

• Your server is NOT sending emails. Please install some email transport module and select it for use.

Now post upgrade there is nothing in email transport

As it was mentioned in the first post email transport was moved to a module. You can choose one of 2 methods as of now and configure them as before. It's like 5 minute job, including testing.

This was done for more flexibility as the lib that was shipping with TB up to 1.5 was outdated. Now everybody can write external email transport using different methods. (you need just one installed module at once but you might install few and simply change them in the dropdown you showed)

[danwarrior]

Hi, team! So good to read this post! I have being reading but still don't try it by myself. But honestly, I really love the direction this is taking, this is more than I was expecting almost 4 years ago, and I'm ready to bring back lots of Spanish speaking PS users that need this (there are a big part of the PS community). We'll be in touch so soon! I have some amazing connections and I'll email you, @datakick, we can go even beyond with this beautiful 1.5 version. Really nice job, guys, congratulations! This arrive in the perfect moment 😉

[Adik]

Hello!

Fresh install ThirtyBees 1.5, php 8.2.12, nginx 1.22.1

When trying to update Core Update and Blog, module versions remain unchanged. When I completely remove modules and install it again new version is visible. Nginx configuration from Datakick.

Premium modules do not work, after logging page refreshes and that's all.

 

Thirtybees 1.5, php 7.4, this same nginx server - everything works smoothly incl. premium addons.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Adik

[zen]

I upgraded a catalogue TB website from 1.4 to 1.5, it gaves a lot of bugs and nothing worked anymore.. front or back office, the upgrade module just stopped and therefore I changed the php version for the targeted one : 8.1.5 and front office worked again for some pages.. but many errors from database structure wich is different now. I fixed that in order to make the back office work again and I could never logged in properly. I updated all core, classes, controllers files and updated cookie key and password hashed from another 1.5 fresh instance, from there i could get into the back office again.. and there I accessed the core module updater and the procedure could be performed again and the DB fixed.

Now everything work fine.. except the image regeneration, for categories it is so fast, works like a charm but for products images.. It takes ages, I had to increase time out value so much.. it makes no sense.. like 4mn for generating 5 formats of one product image, what could be happening ?

I even installed on server and TB the Imagick module, but it changes nothing.

ThirtyBees 1.5 + Nginx + MariaDB