SLiCK_303 Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 I feel ya brother..I understand. I would do the same thing if my sales were affected so badly.
Generaal Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 I know, wakabayashi, for many shop owners and developers are it a freetime business. Maybe we have to look for other income sources, like co-operate with a webhosting company, everyone need that to go live with their shop.
wakabayashi Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @Generaal Isn't it already there? You can launch thirty bees with Cloudways... Cloudways is a very good way to start in my opinion. It's cheap but still fast.
nickon Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @wakabayashi It does not have to be money. But a badge or a banner or promote a paid module does not cost anything. For you @datakick or @SLiCK_303 it may seem unnesserey but for others it may mean something. You have to motivate ppl
wakabayashi Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 I wrote a gamification module. So I am aware of motivation aspect :) ;) You are right, but at this point I guess, the community should do such things. Feel free to write a blog post about how you use "revws" module. I am sure it would be published on the blog. For the moment no translation is at 100%. So every merchants could help, if he wants to :)
Generaal Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 Ok wakabayashi, I have visit their site, but only shared hosting, no VPS only option.
wakabayashi Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @Generaal there are a lot of hosting partners: https://thirtybees.com/partners/hosting-partners/
nickon Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @wakabayashi If I used TB it would be easyer. I haven't tried revws module (Does it work with PS?) I have done quite some translation in Greek but since I can not use it and I can't verify that all is ok I left it for later. But I will go back to it as soon as I find decide to switch to TB
wakabayashi Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @nickon I understand your point. But you may see it yourself: 90% of the members here are saying either: "I will, when I make income" or "I will, when I switched to TB". Don't get it as an attack. It's just like a fact. Btw: yes the revws module can be used with ps...
nickon Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 @wakabayashi and they are all right. Like @lesley said a pizza is 20% of TB income. Don't judge ppl on what they can't do. I for myself do not feel bad for my contribution to TB since I already have contributed both in the translation and the discusions on this forum considering I don't even use it. If I can help (even with ideas) make it better I will be happy. My goal for TB btw was to use it for some of our customers site they are asking for, but I will wait until things are in place. Until then I will use PS 1.6.
Mediacom87 Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 1640/5000 The majority of traders want to earn argzent with their trade without any knowledge of the tool they use. A very small minority believes that the skills needed to do things well deserve salary. Many believe that if it's open source it's free. Typical example, I developed free modules for PS, to date, certainly downloaded more than 200 000 times and it brought me max 20 € donations. On the other hand I was insulted when the module did not focus on a modified shop with the feet. Or because I refused to develop an absurd function requiring days of development all this for free. TB is fine, the project is moving at its own pace, success is a long way and it is necessary that the protagonists of this project listen but put in place the strategy that suits them. Personally, I do not understand some improvement choices that I do not consider practical on a daily basis, such as the management of the images produced to modify them, but to do it properly for a perfect user experience would require weeks of development, so I applauded the implementation of this function because it corrects a major PS defect without distorting the use of TB. The constraints of some are that we always want better on 1 point that concerns them, but multiplied by the number of users can quickly feel overwhelmed. And as users (like customers) wake up all the same day, it's very scary, especially if the project undermines more rewarding or rewarding actions.
zimmer-media Posted March 29, 2018 Author Posted March 29, 2018 I hope this is my last comment in this topic. Only there are points that still can not leave me alone, I wanted to say goodbye simply and formally. I still want to defend myself on a number of points. @yaniv14 and @lesley Did I mention something here in the topic or in the error messages about a free support, request or similar? As I said a few weeks ago because of the Paypal problem polite and factual in demand. And I waited and waited and would have waited a bit more. Paypal is a native module of TB. Here I think the community has the right to just ask and point to possibly errors. Not everyone notices mistakes immediately and looks forward to a hint. Hereby I thank @SLiCK_303 , who tried to help me. The community helps each other. In some cases, the community relies on the main programmers. Please read here: https://forum.thirtybees.com/topic/1585/paypal-problem here: https://forum.thirtybees.com/topic/1047/paypal-modul-problem and for example here https://forum.thirtybees.com/topic/1395/paypal-v6-problem And I like to repeat it again - I did that not only out of personal interest, but also for the community. Every community wants a lot, has suggestions for improvement and much more. Even in this topic, which scares me with their magnitude, I'm a little surprised how few actually use TB live and one part seems to have no idea about the European ecommerce market, payment methods, customer service etc (ok no problem), as well as me none from other parts of the world, even if I could sell there until a few days ago. This also so few of Stripe and their possibilities have no idea, hmmm sigh. Pardon to all who feel addressed. Nevertheless, the ecommerce world -> European is dependent. Before Eleazar left, he had said a thing or two. But please do not compare me with him now. Again on the subject of Stripe eg different currencies at Paypal and Stripe. Stripe charges are cheaper for me. Should I make the goods even more expensive, the fight against the competition is hard enough. Stripe offers for my targeted sales room payment options with no monthly additional charge or high fees. I've been watching other potential payment providers since I started ecommerce. Please, no further suggestions to other payment providers. Given the fact that many are waiting for TB 1.0.4 before actually opting to switch. Many expect that more bugs will be fixed. Will some of them still wait, hope and still not change? I have my points of view, as well as others. However, I have to ask why wait so long? Apart from my current problems, TB 1.0.3 runs better than the best PS 1.6.xxx version. Sorry, some arguments that I have read in the last few hours ..... ok. Everybody as he wishes. How would the TB team like to convince them? I am not anymore. I was and still am fascinated and enthusiastic about the performance and improvements over PS 1.6.xxx. Convinced me to stay here .... ??? What should I do? With this unwanted extent in this topic of a real farewell, there was hopefully more food for thought to make more of it -> positive development. To reconsider some things. The clouds over TB were apparently darkened in the last few days. The community has been waiting for weeks for many answers. And I'm the dumbass now. Back to the point Paypal. Here I mention again @SLiCK_303 , who has also communicated that it did not work properly with him, with the same problems as mine. He was more fortunate in finding the solution than me. His solution did not work for me. Only a few hours ago, thanks to the help of @wakabayashi , I understood now how to enter a bug with Github. @lesley And thank you, that at least one of you gave a sign of life from you. It's nice to read that you could remember me migrating my main shop from PS to TB. I was and still am very grateful for this help. I would write more, but it's enough. I think I am partly misunderstood again as well as negative. its absolute crazy :(
zimmer-media Posted March 30, 2018 Author Posted March 30, 2018 I have to add a comment! I almost never looked at this data. If I look at the relationship - I'm the total dumbass in this forum - and im not a programmer comments - and reptutation its really heavy, crazy what do i make wrong? can someone tell me this? I do not want to be personal, @yaniv14 , but do you have some great advice for me? i am a devil? I am in hell? slowly I need tranquilizers.
pmfjoe Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @zimmer-media I do use TB on 2 live sites that bring in a lot of money, one of them over $100k, they work way better than with PS 1.6. I will be adding a 3rd site within the next few months. Prior to TB I was planning on ditching PS for WP. Both use PayPal one uses a paid module from presto-changeo, the higher grossing site actually uses the TB integrated module. Look what it comes down to for me is I have almost never been able to get help in the PS forums when I had issues so any help found here is already 100% better, I always had to figure it out my self with PS. If I was having the issue you were paying for 2 hours of support is what I would do without question. I really can't believe that the cost of switching platforms is less than the cost of 2 or even 5 hours of paid support. I would also note I am not really a developer but do contribute back on Patreon.
zimmer-media Posted March 30, 2018 Author Posted March 30, 2018 @mockob I almost forgot you in the last hours - thank you very much for your (mental) help
zimmer-media Posted March 30, 2018 Author Posted March 30, 2018 @pmfjoe Changing from TB to another shop system costs my time, not my budget. Please read the complete topic or just my comments. !! I'm the asshole !!
pmfjoe Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @zimmer-media I actually did read the entire thing and all the comments. I am not sure how it works for you and to each is own but my time is valuable and if I am spending it trying in vain to fix something I am losing money. I don't think and would never call you an asshole.
zimmer-media Posted March 30, 2018 Author Posted March 30, 2018 @pmfjoe said in I will say goodbye: @zimmer-media I actually did read the entire thing and all the comments. I am not sure how it works for you and to each is own but my time is valuable and if I am spending it trying in vain to fix something I am losing money. I don't think and would never call you an asshole. No you do not have - but I say it to myself @lesley and @mdekker Sorry -> For over 3 days I have hardly slept and eaten. Meanwhile, I hope you have read it completely. @lesley Regarding the dark clouds, I'm looking forward to your blog. The community wanted more feedback from you. And I have unconsciously contributed by my topic to make your voice heard. Why write ppl constantly, use another module. Buy in the PS shop etc. As it seems, the native TB modules Paypal and Stripe in the few Liveshops, barely in use. If I am correct, it can not only be on different servers with my shops. Am I not too stupid for that? Only for the wrong decisions? I may be wrong too, but if I've made mistakes, I've admitted for it. I have the ass in my pants to confess my own mistakes.
lesley Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 Just to give everyone a heads up I am going to release the blog post tomorrow during the US time during the day. I am trying to go to bed at a reasonable hour tonight.
nickon Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @zimmer-media @zimmer-media said in I will say goodbye: @pmfjoe Changing from TB to another shop system costs my time, not my budget. Please read the complete topic or just my comments. And on what system have you moved to?
Chandra Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 I had moved to tb recently and without any doubt, the driver has been the perceived focus of tb on a better product, an open model not tying up into paid modules (I read @lesley 's perspective) and a community that was much more responsive and helpful. A good part of the expectation was met in my experience over the months and as noted by everyone, there have been some areas of concern of late. My view of a few things to put in place: 1) A published roadmap on bug fixes and releases. Can the community determine what is priority so everyone is aware of what is coming and when, and feels included in the way forward. 2) Expand the developer base by focusing on getting a few more community members to contribute. I for one am not entirely technical but am willing to pick up a bit and help with some issues and modules, if there is some handholding - I am sure many of us would like to do this too. This could help allay some of the worries on slow fixes on critical issues. 3) Create a way to take contributions, however small they are. I had noticed the amounts mentioned on the contribute page are intimidating for a tiny shop not making any money - I backed off not knowing if a small amount like a couple of dollars might sound insulting. 4) Improve communication - looks like this is being addressed. 5) How about actively pitching in for some big shops to be sponsors - and everyone can benefit? Is this in place already? 6) How hard is it to fix the paypal issue of @zimmer-media ? I guess the community shouldn't lose valuable contributors just for a bug... can't someone knowledgeable lay out a design and community heroes like @SLiCK_303 , @datakick and @wakabayashi pick it from there to fix?
MockoB Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 I don't get it why some of the users here think that @zimmer-media has to pay for solving native bugs. There are paid ecommerce solutions and even they don't demand that. The bug is reported many times and not just from one person but at least two, and it must be said that both of them have coding skills, so what if something happens with the majority of the users? So let's get it little more personal. I always buy my modules, and I have to tell that before I buy them, I download them from warez sites to test their functionality. @yaniv14 I contacted you about developing custom theme but you had a lot of work and I found another developers to do that. I will use @datakick's custom services if I ever have running tb shop, to develop a functionality for me. Even more I donated $50 for the elastic search project without ever planning to use that module, and my mother's retirement pension is about $100 monthly. Actually I gave less for charity last year! So please don't blame me or any other here we don't want to pay for development services. That's just not right to pay for native bug and you must understand it! I know you count on our money to make a living but that's not the way to get it! @Mediacom87 as you compared me to one of the many, from the ps community and couple of times mentioned you are here to support tb. I made the effort to read all your 20 some comments on the forum. In more than half of them you are promoting your products, and in the other half you are criticizing and telling people how to run their businesses. I may point you for example other developer on this forum @datakick, if you are 10% supportive as he on the forum, the community will be grateful. Then your opinion will have more weight here, until then I will just ignore it. I am finishing with this topic once again :)
Mediacom87 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @mockob As I said, with 10 years spent supporting the PS community, I have less time to come and help traders with the same discourse, not understanding what the open source world is and imposing homework to the contributor because they must live from the developed site for free with the solution. So the criticism makes me laugh, because yes, I do not participate as you like, but my presence being the first European contributor to clearly display the compatibility of my modules on my site, like deposit my paid modules in the marketplace , retwitter the wholesale article communicating and talking about TB brings, I hope, my little stone to the building. Personally, I do not put any free module available because I hate Github, which also explains that I never intervene in the structure of the solution. I have not yet switched my site on TB because it is not that simple and that I said, if it works, why change. Certainly that I would be better able to help the day when I myself would be confronted with the use of the tool.
nickon Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @mockob Nothing in life is free. @zimmer-media did not have to pay. But since he had a problem and nobody could help him in the time he needed, he had to take some actions. Those would be 1. Ask @mdekker, @lesley , or anybody else for a paid solution 2. Buy a module from an other developer 3. Switch platform He chose 3. I would choose 2. because it would be cheaper. But that is his dissision and I will not criticize him for that. Don't get things to personal. We all do what we can do. I don't value someone more because he pays for something or because he is a patrion or not. To me @zimmer-media has giving some great tips that will help me in the future (multiple features). I am sure he will not (must not) leave this community. If he does I hope him the best. But that's about it. I don't realy get the drama. The good thing about all of this is that it has highlighted some problems that exist in TB Mainly on the roadmap and the communication front of things. If @lesley addresses them than I am very glad @zimmer-media did this post. If @lesley choose to ingnore all of this, then he is sticking his head in the ground and TB will not grow as it can. I think that the day is near when @lesley posts his blog. Let's take it from there and see where it goes.
Traumflug Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @zimmer-media said: With this unwanted extent in this topic of a real farewell, there was hopefully more food for thought to make more of it -> positive development. To reconsider some things. The clouds over TB were apparently darkened in the last few days. The community has been waiting for weeks for many answers. And I'm the dumbass now. When starting a discussion along the lines of "I'm leaving, it's stupid here" one can't exactly expect to receive cheering.
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