19 Patron ?!

[datakick]

I wonder how accurate builtwith.com data are - they track ~576 sites

[lesley]

I do not think very accurate currently. We are toying with the idea of sending data to them directly on install though.

[30knees]

@lesley said in 19 Patron ?!:

Since we do not collect information after the installation it is hard to tell. The downside of complying with EU laws and respecting privacy.

I could help in figuring out a way to get the required stats and be legally compliant. Drop me a PM if you're interested.

[lesley]

It hard to see if a shop is actually being used without gathering transactional information. Its something we aren't wanting to gather really.

[DavidP]

@lesley I'd like to see a donation button on the site as well such as via PayPal. My company (and myself) are old school in that we hate to have recurring subscription costs going on but are willing to donate to the project, especially given the whole security issues with card details stored around the web and the amount of hacks that are ongoing. I know it's paranoia but a lot of people are paranoid about their data, that's part of the reason for the GDPR in the first place.

I honestly believe that if you asked someone to pay $1 a month to Patreon they'd say no but if you asked them to donate $50 then there's a much higher chance of that happening because there's very little information stored about them in the latter case.

[lesley]

As a note we have added a paypal donation button to the side column of the blog and the blog posts, https://thirtybees.com/blog/ So if patreon was holding anyone back, we have that option now.

[DavidP]

@lesley you might want to make the donate button change when you hover over it so people know it can be clicked.

[lesley]

@DavidP Ok, I have changed the code paypal generates to make it a pointer now.

[Beeta]

@lesley said in 19 Patron ?!:

As a note we have added a paypal donation button to the side column of the blog and the blog posts, https://thirtybees.com/blog/ So if patreon was holding anyone back, we have that option now.

how about making the sidebar sticky, so if the user scrolls the page, the sidebar will be always visible.

examples: https://webdesign.tutsplus.com/tutorials/sticky-positioning-with-nothing-but-css--cms-24042 https://abouolia.github.io/sticky-sidebar/

[wakabayashi]

@FooLab good point. A thread becomes fastly long, so it should be sticky.

[lesley]

We have gained a couple new patrons, https://www.patreon.com/thirtybees

[dosbiner]

Nicee, thank you for new patrons ??

[doclucas]

Fast Forward 9-10 months:

@wakabayashi said in 19 Patron ?!:

Somtimes I have the feeling, that some features aren't even used by any other merchants than us. In advanced stock management and multistore there are so many bugs, that active merchants would (have to) report. Recently I tried to use the mailchimp module. Unfortunately it's not working (with multistore). How can it be, that Michael invest a lot of time in developing and we (merchants) don't even have time, to test and give feedbacks? For the crowdfunding elasticsearch module I see similair problems. Look at it: https://github.com/thirtybees/elasticsearch/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue Almost no feedback by merchants... I know that there are a few feedbacks in the forum, but that is by far not enough.

One of the issues I personally noticed with at least some of your bug reports is that they are very hard to reproduce (by me at least). I tried to look into it and wasn't able to. I asked you to write the full steps to reproduce on the latest TB, but still no response.

@davidp said in 19 Patron ?!:

I'd like to add my own comment here.

Firstly, I had deleted all my previous posts and content because I basically got pissed off with @Traumflug and others about their viewpoint that this community is to serve users of TB and not to serve merchants - people were asking valid merchant questions that he deemed off topic for these forums.

Some people should stick to what they do best, in this case - development, instead of antagonizing the limited number of forum members with their actions and opinions. Being a project developer or a backer does not have to automatically grant anyone a "global moderator" title.

Anyhow, I've been watching the posts to keep an eye on the project and felt strongly enough about this post to re-activate to give my viewpoint.

I paid into the Elastic search module $75 because I felt it was worthwhile. I was concerned it took so long to develop and when it did come out it was useless to me on a shared server. I know there's been various versions since but I've not bothered looking at it as I feel TB still isn't good enough to switch to from PS.

ElasticSearch module works beautifully. It obviously requires root access (hence at least a VPS, not shared hosting) to install the E.S. server, but when it works - it's probably one of the best if not the best one for PS/TB. Before you invested in it, if you looked into the system requirements of ES, I am sure you'd know if you can or can't use it.

... BUT the reason why I and probably many others haven't taken the plunge is because you've got no business plan - you've tried the coin hive thing, you've tried paying for making modules and now this Patreon thing yet there's still no 'this is what we're going to give'...

I keep on repeating the same things and they keep on falling on deaf ears: No business plan, no clear road-map and no business sense.

On PrestaShop they've got a dire 1.7 that seems to be getting worse but their plan to make money is to make you pay for it from modules. Lots of open source platforms do this. On the flip side here, you've got what seems to be 1 dedicated developer who is still tinkering with the elastic search, other devs who you don't know what are doing and no plan in place other than 'we're fixing the modules, tidying up some stats modules, fixing this or that'.

If you want this Patreon thing to work you need a clear plan of who the developers are, what happens if @mdekker suddenly decides he's had enough, does that mean TB ends?

Good question. Regarding PS 1.7, I haven't tested myself, but some developers keep saying it has come a long way since it was first launched and the core is pretty good already on the current version (1.7.4.2). True or false, I have no idea. That said, TB core has come a long way as well and it is not far better than PS 1.6 core and getting better every day.

What the other devs get paid if anything?

Another good question.

And also as @Traumflug pointed out in another post about the warehouse theme guy using WooCommerce because it was easy to setup - TB needs to just be installable, no 'you've got to do this, that or whatever' to make it work.

Couldn't have said it better. Note that if you have softaculous on your server - it's super simple to install TB with it.

@lesley said in 19 Patron ?!:

@DavidP I guess I am in a position to address some of your concerns.

There is a business plan behind thirty bees, we are working to live off an affiliate channel and the revenues our store generates once it is up and running. Both are pretty straightforward and easy to accomplish, we just need more users to accomplish them and make them viable. We also plan to make free modules for service providers, we have a couple on the burner right now actually. We have also been entertaining investments as well to help jump start use starting a 2.0.0 version with new and different features that we cannot make compatible in the 1.0.x branch.

So we do have a plan, its just not moving at breakneck speed, which is just as frustrating for us as it is for you I can imagine.

As we discussed this in private before, I will say it again here - no, you don't have a business plan.

I am sorry that you feel your contribution to the elasticsearch was a waste. The module was a bit more complicated than we anticipated, we were not able to build off of existing code because of the quality of the code.

ES modules works great, as I pointed out above. It does need a new release with the bug-fix/commit I made, at least. So does the cronjobs module.

thirty bees is never going to be a paid service, it will always be free and open source.

As for @mdekker leaving, I wouldn't consider that. This is a startup company, he has sunk a ton of his own time and money into this company, I don't think there is the option to give up and take a loss on everything.

Come again? It's pretty clear he is not active on the forums and with development and nobody knows (or should rely on) if he ever chooses to come back. There are way too many such open source projects that their lead/main developer one day disappears (for one reason or another) and drags down the entire project with him. In the ecommerce world - one HPDL comes to mind (Harald Ponce De Leon). It's totally unwise for anyone to rely on any one-man project/s.

@wakabayashi said in 19 Patron ?!:

@lesley But what is the plan for next year? So many improvement ideas are answered with something like: "this would break compability." I wonder, if the price isn't too high to guarantee compability?

Guaranteeing legacy compatibility is critical for the survival and success of this project (to attract enough current PS 1.6 users who invested tons of money on their modules and themes). If they will have to choose between moving to a new incompatible platform (as you suggest) or to simply stay on their platform or upgrade to PS 1.7+, they will likely do the latter 2 options, as they already know PS and PS ecosystem is big enough, and they don't know TB. You gotta make TB attractive for this very large user-base and the best way is by keeping it legacy compatible with a much better, stable core.

For example: So many merchants want to delete and edit orders. Why can't this be added?

Good idea. This indeed should be a core feature, and a very important one.

I have to agree with @DavidP somehow in the elasticsearch project. Michael is surely working hard on it. It will be a great module, when it's finished. But I guess like five merchants here, will use it. I may be wrong, but my experience with mailchimp module tell me that :(

ES is a great module. Even a must module. The problem is, as I noticed in one of the replies that some people don't even know what it is and what it's supposed to be doing. One important thing to add to the modules store is a demo of each module, like PS market has (BO and FO demos). I am sure many merchants will use it when they figure out what it is and how to use it. (Yes, as stated above - root access is required, so minimum a VPS).

@lesley said in 19 Patron ?!:

The plan for next year, is early in the year to set a feature set and framework for 2.0.0. You @wakabayashi actually helped influence it. I have talked to a lot of people over the last few weeks and it seems like merchants would like a new front office as opposed to a reworking of the back office. So we are planning on breaking compatibility on the front office and with some modules to redesign the front office. A total redesign, not a new theme, but a redesign of the theme and the under laying architecture of the front end. It needs to be modernized and have a lot of stability changes put in.

Around the end of this year is when PS support for 1.6.x ends (October to be exact), that exactly the time that migration from PS 1.6.x code base gonna start, those merchants will look at their best, cheapest & simplest migration options - a PS 1.6.x compatible TB will attract them much more than an incompatible TB, in which case, as I said before, they will more likely migrate to PS 1.7.x or another platform altogether. Common sense.

I am sure more merchants will use it over time, it does appeal to developers more, I do have to admit that. That is why I always leaned towards another module. We are trying to work out a deal with Algolia now, for users that cannot set up their own Elastic instance to be able to have another search module choice.

Algolia is a paid service (they have a small free plan too, tho). ES is free if deployed on own server and only requires a VPS or higher, so any merchant on this kind of server will not benefit from Algolia. As for shared hosting shops, if merchants are willing to pay monthly fee to Algolia, why wouldn't they simply pay less to upgrade their server to at least a low cost VPS that allows them to run the excellent ES module for free and does give them a lot more benefits by having root access? Yeah, shared hosting is simple solution for most merchants with no sys-admin skills, but still, there are quite low cost managed VPSs plans as well.

@traumflug said in 19 Patron ?!:

A VPS is very cheap nowdays. Still a lot are on shared

I'm on shared because it's less work. Just upload the code an it works. No need to deal with email setup, backup, DNS, PHP versions, whatever. If a VPS comes with the same amount of services, well, then it's about the same as a shared host, isn't it?

It's actually not. Shared hosting doesn't give you the privileges/abilities you get on a root-access VPS. There are very high peroformance VPSs as well, if needed, before moving to semi-dedicated or fully dedicated servers or higher to clusters. Yes, VPS requires more work, mostly for the initial setup (not much work nevertheless), but a good company that offers managed VPS will take care of all the setup for the user when needed.

@davidp said in 19 Patron ?!:

The thing about Shopify though is it's hosted by them and not self-hosted.

Exactly. How do you make a self-hosted shop - subscription based? What happens when the fee isn't paid? The self-hosted shop will stop functioning? I can understand annual or one-time fee model in return for access to future bug fixes and new releases tho, but as the founder has pointed out - it will never happen, so it's basically like talking to the hand.

The other problem with Shopify and many platforms out there is that the software itself is very basic; getting something that can do advanced stock management with multiple warehouses, volume discounts on product combinations, loyalty discounts & offers and multiple currencies / languages is very costly (I've looked a lot and the closest you're going to get is PrestaShop 1.6 even if it is broken). TB has got a good base for all of this with most of it fixed and could surpass all those other solutions.

True.

With regards to the Patreon thing, it's also a very short term viewpoint - you want to hire 1 developer on an OK wage, what happens when he wants holidays or goes off sick, who stands in? What happens when the work is too much for him and you need other developers, do they get a cut of his pay or do they work for free?

Great question.

TB may have started out as a nice project due to PS dropping it but it needs to be run as a viable business because merchants want stability, they don't want to invest in something that they don't know is going to be around in a years time - Patreon is not a viable business plan.

Bingo! One of the main reasons I don't run any TB store yet (despite being quite active and as helpful as I can on the forums and on github) is because of a major concern about the longevity of the project and very concerning statements showing the the active-founder's vision, such as breaking legacy compatibility very soon, which I totally disagree with (and based on chats and reading many comments on this forum, I know for a fact that there are many others here that think the same as me).

@lesley forgive me here, but I don't understand how an affiliate channel will bring in money if TB is free, what exactly are they selling?

Yep.

@davidp said in 19 Patron ?!:

The Magento cost of M2 isn't just because of Ebay, it's because they've now got investors who want a return on their investment. Ebay started it off but it's gone well beyond their plans of how to make money. It serves their investers to make the open commerce version of M2 a pile of crap.

I got friends using M2 2.2 CE and highly recommending it, some of them tried almost every other self-hosted eCommerce solution. Care to elaborate why it's a pile of crap?

@dynambee said in 19 Patron ?!:

Right now most users don't even know the Patreon page exists. That will change after it's displayed during the install process and in the back office. It will still take time to grow but I'm sure that as the number of users grow so will the number of supporters.

There is a simple solution. Add Patreon and Paypal links to the top of every TB page, including these forums like many other open-source projects do, for example to here: Or any other visible location on all these pages. And make sure Paypal logo looks like the well known Paypal logo, like this:

and not like this:

@wakabayashi said in 19 Patron ?!:

One problem of TB is, that it should be compatible with PS 1.6 modules. This makes a lot of wishful changes in the core impossible, right?

Wrong. Read:

@roband7 said in 19 Patron ?!:

Technically it's quite possible to program a new core, while still leaving a compatibility layer for PS 1.6. Developers hate making stuff like that, but if there's a business case for it, it's sure doable.

And there certainly is a huge business case for it. Thank you for this comment! If Microsoft could make the massive windows 10 source code still maintain very high backward compatibility with most windows XP programs that were made 17 years ago, while still making it a very modern OS, then making any software, such as TB, backward compatible and even with an improved legacy compatibility is doable and needed. And no, the code doesn't need to become much larger to achieve this goal.

@lesley said in 19 Patron ?!:

It can be done, yes, but you give up a lot.

Give up what?

We are planning on redoing the front end next year so it will be more stable and offer the best possible performance and ease of editing for users. Its not a small task. Shimming everything so front end modules would still work would pretty much negate any front end performance we added in.

If it's well written with a legacy compatibility layer and fallback options, it's not supposed to negate anything. As @roband7 pointed out - it's doable (although developers hate making stuff like that and it seems some founders too, for the wrong reasons).

@30knees said in 19 Patron ?!:

This is an interesting discussion.

I think the most important thing to keep the community and contribution spirit alive is to explain carefully why one rejects a contribution, a suggestion, etc.

Like here? https://github.com/thirtybees/thirtybees/pull/588 And here? https://github.com/thirtybees/thirtybees/issues/590

@lesley said in 19 Patron ?!:

I think it has to be pointed out as a community dies, the toxic complainers are left sometimes to feed on other toxic complainers. My first exposure to @eleazar in the thirty bees community was of him trying to remove open source translations from the German version of thirty bees because he did not want to be associated with the project. My second exposure was of him bashing thirty bees on a thread in another forum. Then he came over for awhile, participated, and then took his ball and went home again when things did not go the way he wanted. We honestly don't have the time for that. I want everyone to be happy, but I don't want to bring toxic community members over, they drain the life force of a project.

I don't wanna talk specifically about this member, as I don't know the full details, so I will write about my personal matter: Have you ever considered that, despite your undeniable good intentions: your (and/or team members) approach, actions & some of your statements could be what making people toxic and/or leave this community? I can see plenty of very active past users and developers no longer participating here (last active time: months and months ago) and the trend goes on. For example, closing that github issue so quickly despite the disagreement, ignoring my questions (which are symptoms of a disrespect in my book), ignoring pull requests without posting any comments, not showing any kind of appreciation in any shape or form to anything I am doing around here (for example - the (IMHO very important) compatibility list I worked on for hours in my very busy and super valuable time, when I don't even use TB and I can gain nothing from your project success at present), but just keep on demanding for more, more things that I do like I am a TB team member on a payroll or something. These are just a few of the many examples I can give. You do that's instead of embracing and encouraging the few people in this small community that contribute while gaining nothing or gaining very little, while you have everything to gain if your project will (hopefully) become a success.

It's not only you tho. The community doesn't seem to be very helpful either. Example: That compatibility list I made was just to kickstart the project and I expected it to be updated with lots of modules quickly, not just to be used. There were some members here that promised to update it with a list of their working modules, but when the time came - nada. I can understand how lack of support can discourage you after all your efforts. It discouraged me too. The difference is, again, for my efforts - I have nothing to gain anyway. You still have something to hope for.

@lesley said in 19 Patron ?!:

We aren't going to do a free module forum for downloads, its just not the direction we are going to go. We are actually talking about it right now, because its a good point you brought up. I suggested having a repo like thirty bees community, in there storing things like that.

For the free module forum, we are just going to put free modules in our shop. We are actually hoping to launch the iteration with our free modules this week maybe.

The main thing about having modules for download in the forum is they get lost, not updated, and no one can contribute. This is what we are trying to change. It expands the reach of the software so much.

So why not adding them to the modules store? Like this model: https://apps.oscommerce.com/ Where anybody can upload their modules and modules updates. This way they won't get lost. If they are not updated, their last supposed version is clearly stated (official modules may not get updated as well, by the way), and modules can be updated by other members with past versions available for download. You can require a github link for each community (free) module and a support/discussion forum-thread link all visible on the module page in the modules store. Or something along these lines.

@lesley said in 19 Patron ?!:

I just want there to be a difference in the modules that are officially supported and the ones that are community supported.

Can be tagged accordingly in the modules market.

@davidp said in 19 Patron ?!:

The issue I have with TB is the worry about it's future support and direction;

Yep. Same here.

at the moment my stores work but I couldn't honestly say that'd be the case if I went TB. I see all the issues people have on here with payments and emails and those sort of problems would kill my stores, it's just too big a risk to take.

Which issues? Is that still valid?

TB need to address core issues, funding and roadmap - for all the for/against Patreon or paid subscription the point is that right now the funding isn't there so the full time support isn't there and people are leaving PrestaShop in droves but not to TB.

I assume marketing and community help can improve this. There needs to be much more awareness. Read this excellent blog post: https://thirtybees.com/contribute/ways-to-help-thirty-bees/

first quarter of next year many PrestaShop merchants will be be evaluating their platforms and looking to switch to something new and I worry TB will miss out on the exodus.

Maybe not so fast. Normally when merchants have a modern store that works and brings income, they don't rush to change it or evaluate other platforms. It takes much longer time than that. I am not talking about you or me, but the vast majority. What normally motivates them to upgrade is when their hosting provider suddenly upgrades php or mysql etc., and then their outdated applications start having issues. One of the reasons I think making TB php 7.2 compatible should be a high priority to help attract merchants in the near future.

@lesley said in 19 Patron ?!:

we just want Algolia or someone else to pay for it since they will be getting all the gain for it.

You are contradicting yourself. If they will be getting all the gain for it, then why do you want them to do it? The obvious answer is - because you have something to gain too, which is why you made ES module. That's, as you wrote, to have all search options offerings which in return make the platform more popular. That's why if Algolia doesn't do it, crowdfunding can be a good option, even if you need to outsource the work to get it done. Still you don't pay for it yourself. win-win for TB and the community.

@datakick said in 19 Patron ?!:

@lesley said in 19 Patron ?!:

We are seeing between 50-100 installs

That's surprisingly high number, congrats! How many of those are production servers, though? That's the more important metric

Sorry, don't believe this number for a second. I wish it was true tho.

@datakick said in 19 Patron ?!:

I wonder how accurate builtwith.com data are - they track ~576 sites

Not 100% accurate, but still gives a pretty close picture. Deviation is normally up to 20% according online researches. (and Thirtybees headers are easy to identify) Check those numbers with the number of registered members here and you'll reach a conclusion quite easily.

@davidp said in 19 Patron ?!:

@lesley I'd like to see a donation button on the site as well such as via PayPal. My company (and myself) are old school in that we hate to have recurring subscription costs going on but are willing to donate to the project, especially given the whole security issues with card details stored around the web and the amount of hacks that are ongoing. I know it's paranoia but a lot of people are paranoid about their data, that's part of the reason for the GDPR in the first place.

I honestly believe that if you asked someone to pay $1 a month to Patreon they'd say no but if you asked them to donate $50 then there's a much higher chance of that happening because there's very little information stored about them in the latter case.

@foolab said in 19 Patron ?!:

@lesley said in 19 Patron ?!:

As a note we have added a paypal donation button to the side column of the blog and the blog posts, https://thirtybees.com/blog/ So if patreon was holding anyone back, we have that option now.

how about making the sidebar sticky, so if the user scrolls the page, the sidebar will be always visible.

examples: https://webdesign.tutsplus.com/tutorials/sticky-positioning-with-nothing-but-css--cms-24042 https://abouolia.github.io/sticky-sidebar/

Yep, good ideas. I mentioned this also with the screenshots & logos in this post.

[wakabayashi]

@doclucas said in 19 Patron ?!:

Fast Forward 9-10 months:

@wakabayashi said in 19 Patron ?!:

Somtimes I have the feeling, that some features aren't even used by any other merchants than us. In advanced stock management and multistore there are so many bugs, that active merchants would (have to) report. Recently I tried to use the mailchimp module. Unfortunately it's not working (with multistore). How can it be, that Michael invest a lot of time in developing and we (merchants) don't even have time, to test and give feedbacks? For the crowdfunding elasticsearch module I see similair problems. Look at it: https://github.com/thirtybees/elasticsearch/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue Almost no feedback by merchants... I know that there are a few feedbacks in the forum, but that is by far not enough.

One of the issues I personally noticed with at least some of your bug reports is that they are very hard to reproduce (by me at least). I tried to look into it and wasn't able to. I asked you to write the full steps to reproduce on the latest TB, but still no response.

• I responded you!?
• This issue was written 1 year ago.
• This isn't a serious issue compared to my other reports.

Yeah they are hard to reproduce, since we are using the system in a hardcore way. Multistore and ASM. At least ASM is full of bugs and bad design. I coded an own ERP module, otherwise I couldn't continue our store with TB.

[lesley]

@doclucas We made the ES module because the community wanted that module made and crowdfunded it. It is an open source platform that does not charge for the services.

For algolia We would want them to fund the development since they are closed source and charge for their service.

[doclucas]

@wakabayashi said in 19 Patron ?!:

@doclucas said in 19 Patron ?!:

Fast Forward 9-10 months:

@wakabayashi said in 19 Patron ?!:

Somtimes I have the feeling, that some features aren't even used by any other merchants than us. In advanced stock management and multistore there are so many bugs, that active merchants would (have to) report. Recently I tried to use the mailchimp module. Unfortunately it's not working (with multistore). How can it be, that Michael invest a lot of time in developing and we (merchants) don't even have time, to test and give feedbacks? For the crowdfunding elasticsearch module I see similair problems. Look at it: https://github.com/thirtybees/elasticsearch/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue Almost no feedback by merchants... I know that there are a few feedbacks in the forum, but that is by far not enough.

One of the issues I personally noticed with at least some of your bug reports is that they are very hard to reproduce (by me at least). I tried to look into it and wasn't able to. I asked you to write the full steps to reproduce on the latest TB, but still no response.

• I responded you!?
• This issue was written 1 year ago.
• This isn't a serious issue compared to my other reports.

Yeah they are hard to reproduce, since we are using the system in a hardcore way. Multistore and ASM. At least ASM is full of bugs and bad design. I coded an own ERP module, otherwise I couldn't continue our store with TB.

You did respond at first, but didn't respond to my last message requesting "post simple step by step instructions on how to reproduce this on a vanilla 1.0.6 installation". For your other (more serious) issues, I suggest you post step by step details showing how to reproduce them. It will help getting them fixed.

@lesley said in 19 Patron ?!:

@doclucas We made the ES module because the community wanted that module made and crowdfunded it. It is an open source platform that does not charge for the services.

For algolia We would want them to fund the development since they are closed source and charge for their service.

That's the only thing you gathered from my long post? hmm, ok.

Regardless of the type of source, they have documentation and you already have an experience with it and a broken algolia module that was developed by your own company Dh42, so I assume my recommendation is still valid, especially when it also helps TB in the long run: " if Algolia doesn’t do it, crowdfunding can be a good option, even if you need to outsource the work to get it done. Still you don’t pay for it yourself. win-win for TB and the community."

[lesley]

Its a business decision. They have a paid product, thirty bees wants to make money, if they don't want to pay us to make the module it does not make good business sense to make the module. Economics 101, we are gravitating toward development that will make us money, so we can grow as a company.

Algolia is a bad choice really, to do it properly every template would need a custom view, that is why we stopped development of the module, it could never work turnkey because of that.

[vincentdenkspel]

@doclucas It's not clear to me what the purpose is your long post. Is it to state that you think TB is heading in the wrong direction? Is it to state you think you deserve more credits for the work you do? To explain why you think people won't become Patrons ? Something else ?

[doclucas]

@lesley said in 19 Patron ?!:

Its a business decision. They have a paid product, thirty bees wants to make money, if they don't want to pay us to make the module it does not make good business sense to make the module. Economics 101, we are gravitating toward development that will make us money, so we can grow as a company.

Algolia is a bad choice really, to do it properly every template would need a custom view, that is why we stopped development of the module, it could never work turnkey because of that.

1) Personally, it doesn't matter to me either way as I really like ES, but you are the one who wrote in this thread "Because there exists the option 3 modules which are compatible, the built in search extenders like Presto-Changeo and Presta-Module make. Having an Algolia module would give us coverage to all search bases." 2) TB developed mailchimp module that is also a paid service (and some other modules of paid services) , didn't it? 3) Sometimes you have to do other people's job if have enough gain from it too in the long run. That's Economics 101.

@vincentdenkspel said in 19 Patron ?!:

@doclucas It's not clear to me what the purpose is your long post. Is it to state that you think TB is heading in the wrong direction? Is it to state you think you deserve more credits for the work you do? To explain why you think people won't become Patrons ? Something else ?

The post has many purposes as it addresses many points and discussions, @vincentdenkspel But ultimately, its purpose is, quite obviously, to voice my opinion & to help.

[lesley]

Yes, we did develop the mailchimp module as a really advanced module and mailchimp basically told us to get fucked they would not partner with us afterward. That is a reason for gravitating towards a more sustainable development practice.

[rubben1985]

@wakabayashi said in 19 Patron ?!: At least ASM is full of bugs and bad design. I coded an own ERP module, otherwise I couldn't continue our store with TB.

Any place where I can see the module in action? Do you sell it? a good ERP is one of the parts that I did not find for PS or TB (not in a affordable way)

[wakabayashi]

@rubben1985 said in 19 Patron ?!:

@wakabayashi said in 19 Patron ?!: At least ASM is full of bugs and bad design. I coded an own ERP module, otherwise I couldn't continue our store with TB.

Any place where I can see the module in action? Do you sell it? a good ERP is one of the parts that I did not find for PS or TB (not in a affordable way)

No sorry, that can't be an official module. It was completly devlopped for our own needs. We use own bundles and stuff. If I could have used the core bundles, I would have thought about it, but like that, it makes no sense at all.

[rubben1985]

@wakabayashi ok, thanks anyway!