nickon Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @traumflug You have to admin though Things where not ideal either. If all was OK then a few ppl would say goodbye @zimmer-media and that would be the end of it
Traumflug Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @mockob said in I will say goodbye: I don't get it why some of the users here think that @zimmer-media has to pay for solving native bugs. Simple answer: because thirty bees is open source. When choosing a paid solution one pays bug fixes with the purchase price / subscription fee. When choosing open source one has to fix bugs oneselfs or pay for fixes one way or another.
musicmaster Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @zimmer-media I am sorry to see you go. I hope Lesley may tell us something that will make you reconsider. If not so: I wish you te best, personally and in business. @Traumflug I still remember that Prestashop had its spinning button problem when Chrome had changed some settings. It was Friday and the guy from Prestashop on the forum wrote that he was going to have a very nice weekend. And the forum exploded from indignation because that meant that at least until Monday (and it fact it took even longer) they had a shop where they couldn't add products. When TB was founded the argument was that we could do this better. Opensource software is not just take it or leave it. Even if he doesn't pay for the software the user invests often a lot of time (and often money) in learning and customizing the software. That puts him in a position where on the one hand he will often be prepared to pay for additional services but where on the other hand he expects some reliability from the author. He should feel responsible that the functionality that he promises actually works. You are right that these are not legal obligations. See it as a kind of moral obligation: unsupported opensource software seldom lasts long. My impression is that Zimmer-media is disappointed at that point. I don't know the technical details so I don't know whether he is right - a lot of problems are caused by third party modules and themes and custom modifications. But given his position in the community we should take his complaints seriously.
wakabayashi Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @Traumflug I guess in general you are right. Most of beginners understand, that the devs need income. But they often argue, that they aren't in the situation right now, to pay for an open source project. They promise, that when they earn money in future, they will support. Unfortunately most shops don't ever make it to this point. It's interesting that nobody expects a free sever hosting or free domain names. This 15$/month can always be paid. But when it comes to open source, there is no budget left over. I guess this is kind of trap for open source. I once wondered, what would be if every tb user would give 1% of their revenue? Probably it's not a realistic scenario, but would there be enough cashflow, to let @lesley and @mdekker work fulltime on this project?
rubben1985 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @musicmaster said in I will say goodbye: Opensource software is not just take it or leave it. Even if he doesn't pay for the software the user invests often a lot of time (and often money) in learning and customizing the software. That puts him in a position where on the one hand he will often be prepared to pay for additional services but where on the other hand he expects some reliability from the author. He should feel responsible that the functionality that he promises actually works. You are right that these are not legal obligations. See it as a kind of moral obligation: unsupported opensource software seldom lasts long. My impression is that Zimmer-media is disappointed at that point. I don't know the technical details so I don't know whether he is right - a lot of problems are caused by third party modules and themes and custom modifications. But given his position in the community we should take his complaints seriously. 100% agree. Open source is not like a charity project. @Traumflug, you should realize that TB is an entrepreneurial project (EXACTLY as PS), an open source project but a business at the end, do not forget that. Founders are not here just to help people like maybe you are, but to earn money someday (I really hope they will do because they starting something great). When they created TB they made an "implicit" deal: they would make things different from prestashop and they request from people to join the project. "yes, but it is free..." well PS is also free and here every one complaint too, isn't it? I see some people here (most people that are volunteer programmers) is that they take the complaints against TB managers, personally. You are 100% volunteers and complaining are not against you!! you make an amazing job 100% for free. People complain about a serious lack of communication of TB creators because that breaks the implicit "deal" and promises. Lesley and mdekker are the fathers of TB, so they have a responsibility of telling people how the project is going on and repair all that is TB code. And that should not be paid as you propose. Customization or new features, sure, but TB code is their responsibility as well any future income will be for them. I still remember at the beginning of the project how one of the most frequents complaints against PS was that the official PS staff were almost not present in the forums. Well, that was what happened here. Mdekker did not appear for 1 month. That is quite much (being soft) in a so young project. I also would like to say something, not to create a discussion but to make some persons here to reconsider their thoughts. It feels to me that some programmers are acting like that their help is "superior" to the help of normal users. A user like @zimmer-media that reports bugs and try to help the community is so valuable (no less) as the one from a programmer, it is just a different kind of help. Not because he doesn't know how to code so well as some of you, means that his time is less valuable. He has been really criticized just for telling his opinion. He has been treated unfairly even if he has been very polite and he is one of the most actives users!!! People that join the platform also spend time and money, do not forget that. They are also putting their business in TB hands. Debugging would be also expensive if you should pay it, but he does it for free. I did not like neither, one of comment about the "size" or income of TB users. Sorry, but it is not only unpolite but disrespectful and totally out of place. If you want an "important" e-commerce, create one yourself... Thanks a lot, @lesley for your last comments and your future blog post. It was really necessary. Please, make this post the first of a new communication policy. I do not have almost time (I work almost 7 days per week 12 h per day) but If I can help a littleit bit with Spanish translation, I would like to contribute.
zimmer-media Posted March 30, 2018 Author Posted March 30, 2018 @Traumflug I remember another debate and small dark clouds. A few months ago there was a member called Eleazar in this community who has a lot of experience and knowledge from PS. I will not search for the topic now. But I'm sure you were one of the main reasons why he left the forum. He could have helped TB in a lot of ways. That's why I ignore your future comments because your posts do not seem to help. @nickon A change back to PS 1.6 would be a step backwards for me. PS 1.7 is absolutely unfit. Therefore, I switch to Shopware. This system is stable and has all the requirements I need for online trading. Including the new GDPR. -------> break I always read here constantly I should pay to get things fixed. And now again: Pay for a PS Paypal module, etc. Who gives me the guarantee that it works with TB! Concerning the support, I have asked for something here from a 24/7 service or something??? It's terrible, almost sucks. -------> break I've been thinking for hours if I write this or not, I've chosen it. QUIZ QUESTION: - In the end, does the FREE ecommerce platform Thirthy Bees turn out to be a sham? - When do the bee sting? Believe me this question was not easy for me to write. Currently, every confidence of me in TB is set negative. Totally shaken. If someone deletes this post, overwrites or even throws me out of the forum -> has the one responsibility to explain this to the other community members. Big thanks to the last positive comments. @zimmer-media said in I will say goodbye: Convinced me to stay here … What should I do? Apart from 2 active members at the beginning of my very first communication on this topic, I still have not received any comments or personal contact. Why I should continue to be loyal to TB. @lesley ok go to bed, sleep or do whatever. I think your project TB does not seem to matter so much to you. Sorry - I have now -> no desire to wait for your comment.
zimmer-media Posted March 30, 2018 Author Posted March 30, 2018 In other words TB is now heavily in crisis.
Mediacom87 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @zimmer-media Really, in crisis ????? With the same moderation I can say that after the weekend, I will come to save the planet TB :-)
zimmer-media Posted March 30, 2018 Author Posted March 30, 2018 @mediacom87 Sorry. Your comments can spare me. The previous ones of you were only counterproductive. Not helpful!
pmfjoe Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @zimmer-media The only one in crisis here seems to be you. Stop creating issues where none exist. Just because you have an issue with 2 modules doesn't mean every one does (and yes I realize there was someone else who had a similar issue with 1 of the modules). If you are so unhappy with TB and are already moving your site then please just leave, better yet go back to PS and see how helpful they are when you have an issue.
Mediacom87 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 Tho, if you can not joke, I knew that the second degree had difficulty to write, but in addition to another language that mine is worse.
vincentdenkspel Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @zimmer-media said in I will say goodbye: ok go to bed, sleep or do whatever. I think your project TB does not seem to matter so much to you. I think this comment is totally out of line !
zimmer-media Posted March 30, 2018 Author Posted March 30, 2018 @vincentdenkspel said in I will say goodbye: I think this comment is totally out of line ! Yes, that is him. I already knew that before writing.
vincentdenkspel Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @zimmer-media said in I will say goodbye: Yes, that is him You mean me, or the comment ? If you knew before writing, than why post it ?
SLiCK_303 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 This thread is a little getting a little outta hand, can we please let this one go, and move on? Please....
nickon Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @zimmer-media said in I will say goodbye: Shopware I never heard of that one. I guess you went for the community edition. Because the other pricesl...outch. Would be nice if you reported back in 3 months and tell us about the community over there. ( I don't mean to insult you for this) And please remain polite. You were a good member. Do not through it away for any reason. I don't know if this topic should continue. I think that everything is said. @zimmer-media is gone. @lesley is to post a blog. I think that from now on nothing good can come from this @zimmer-media Hope to see you again in the future and be well.
wakabayashi Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @mockob said in I will say goodbye: I don't get it why some of the users here think that @zimmer-media has to pay for solving native bugs. There are paid ecommerce solutions and even they don't demand that. The bug is reported many times and not just from one person but at least two, and it must be said that both of them have coding skills, so what if something happens with the majority of the users? So let's get it little more personal. I always buy my modules, and I have to tell that before I buy them, I download them from warez sites to test their functionality. @yaniv14 I contacted you about developing custom theme but you had a lot of work and I found another developers to do that. I will use @datakick's custom services if I ever have running tb shop, to develop a functionality for me. Even more I donated $50 for the elastic search project without ever planning to use that module, and my mother's retirement pension is about $100 monthly. Actually I gave less for charity last year! So please don't blame me or any other here we don't want to pay for development services. That's just not right to pay for native bug and you must understand it! I know you count on our money to make a living but that's not the way to get it! @Mediacom87 as you compared me to one of the many, from the ps community and couple of times mentioned you are here to support tb. I made the effort to read all your 20 some comments on the forum. In more than half of them you are promoting your products, and in the other half you are criticizing and telling people how to run their businesses. I may point you for example other developer on this forum @datakick, if you are 10% supportive as he on the forum, the community will be grateful. Then your opinion will have more weight here, until then I will just ignore it. I am finishing with this topic once again :) I can tell you why @Mediacom87 is acting as he does. Read this thread carefully: https://forum.thirtybees.com/topic/1237/forcing-customer-to-choose-an-attribute I remember I spent at least two hours for a decent approach to solve one of YOUR problems. Your answer was basically like that: It's a hack, it's not professional, I won't use it. Since then I never have done anything custom and I won't for the future. It's just frustrating... Some of you guys just don't understand how many hours a guy like @traumflug spent for tb. Feel free to guess how many hours my free loyalty module took to develop?
rubben1985 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 @zimmer-media last posts do not reflect the image I had of you. I know you are frustrated but, that kind of post is not constructive. TB has great future.
zimmer-media Posted March 30, 2018 Author Posted March 30, 2018 @rubben1985 I know that. In places I felt pushed by some comments in the corner. The existing frustration was thereby strengthened. For various things I will not apologize for now.
lesley Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 I am closing this topic, is has swerved into so many directions. I have opened a topic here, https://forum.thirtybees.com/topic/1639/the-state-of-thirty-bees discussing thirty bees and the future and how we can involve the community more.
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