Analytics tools

[Gotabor]

Hello,

Just to follow on a separate topic what has been said, Matomo (also known as Piwik) is still free if you download it and install it on a server : https://matomo.org/download/

Following this, I do have a question about analytics tools. Currently I have Google Analytics AND Matomo installed on all my website, the reason being that they give me totally different results and I really don't know which one to trust :

Sample of stats beetween June 1st and today (24th) :

Google analytics :
- Visits : 3611
- Pages seen : 14417

Matomo :
- Visits : 3922
- Pages seen : 27059 on which 10084 are unique views.

That's some huge gap, and I don't really know which one to trust. By default I'm still using GA for my reports, but I find it hard to believe that I'm loosing more and more visitors each year while there are more and more orders at the same time.

Do any of you have any experience which could explain the difference (setup problem maybe) ?

 

Here is the original topic started by @AndyC about StatCounter

 

[haylau]

I believe knowing what is an actual visitor is not an exact science because bots get in the way (perhaps also things like multiple tabs from same user, ignoring your own specific IP addresss)

So for a few reasons I don't think thwo systems will ever give the same results as it may depend on which bots are being ignored (and whether those lists of bots are up to date)

This i about wordpress, but principles remain the same I suppose https://www.monsterinsights.com/docs/why-google-analytics-stats-different-from-jetpacks-stats/

[Cassim]

Remember that most of the new browsers, have blocker installed by standard for google analytics. Also most of the adblockers you can get are running standard analytics blockers. 

Most of the standard inside the browsers are only blocker google analytics and not the other tracking tools. 

So you will never ever be able to track 100% all visitors no matter what you do. Its simple not able.

 

So their will always be a gab in numbers. 

 

[datakick]

More and more users blocks google analytics nowadays. With self-hosted tracking tool the situation is much better as it's hard(er) for blockers to detect and block it.

So, I'd say that self-hosted Matomo will give you more precise data. Still not 100% accurate, but better than GA. But it's not really that important. We are not using these tools to look at transactional data, we are using it to look at aggregated data. And from this point of view, data collected by GA will have very similar characteristics as data collected by Matomo.

For me, the real question is which solution offers better tools to analyze collected datasets. 

 

[wakabayashi]

1 hour ago, datakick said:

For me, the real question is which solution offers better tools to analyze collected datasets. 

I agree ofc with your post but I am interested: for which tool did you decide?

We are on GA, but right now more for lazyness. I never checked the other tools. 

[Gotabor]

Thank you all for your answers, I was aware that bots could be part of the problem, but I completely forgot about the adblockers. And it is indeed logical that they would also disable GA trackers.

As you said datakick, I'm not using these tools for the transactions (PS and TB are more than enough for that), I'm using those mainly for montly reports and also to check where people land on the sites so I can improve the customer experience accordingly.

For which tool is best to analyse data, I think it really depend on the stats you are looking for. For my needs which are more focused on what the customer do in the website, Matomo is the way to go. The actions are much more detailed (exemple you can see if someone downloaded one of your product picture).

GA (for the use I have of it) has this very cool function which allow to display the number of unique visitors per period. Meanwhile Matomo only display it for specific timelines (days, weeks, months, years).

Neither of those tools display what people inputed in the web browser "undefined keyword" at 95%-97%. So if you thought Google would give you better results, it doesn't.

 

As we don't do a lot of paid campaign, I don't know if GA is better or not in that area. There is a campaigns tracking tool on Matomo, but I never used it.

[Factor]

2 hours ago, datakick said:

blocks google analytics nowadays

I know as a consumer. I block all ads and analytics with a PI hole at my home. As consumer ads are like solicitations, telemarketing, junk mail and such. All deleted, ignored and or thrown away. 

If I want to do business with someone I go looking for them. If they come looking for me I mark them off my list. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Factor

[haylau]

8 minutes ago, Factor said:

I know as a consumer. I block all ads and analytics with a PI hole at my home. As consumer ads are like solicitations, telemarketing, junk mail and such. All deleted, ignored and or thrown away. 

 If I want to do business with someone I go looking for them. If they come looking for me I mark them off my list. 

The problem is the logical conclusion of that avenue is that no one will see adverts. So companies won't pay for adverts so they will loose trade - and quite likely Google et al will cease to exist

You have to laugh though, do a search for adblockers and they all pay for ads to be top of google.

[lesley]

@datakick as a note the thirty bees google analytics implementation should get around adblockers and record basic traffic through any blocker. It has an ajax function that checks if the script has been blocked and will send basic info via the api interface. 

[Factor]

1 hour ago, haylau said:

no one will see adverts

Yes correct..  As a consumer that would be glorious.  Also to be more specific.  It not that advertising is bad.  Its the continued badgering (Harassment) of some companies.  Like the ones who send you emails every week, send you real mail all the time, or the ones who knock on the door even though you have a No solicitation sign up.. its all the privacy we let out of the bag...  

 

1 hour ago, haylau said:

Google et al will cease to exist

Doubt google is going anywhere...  if they do someone will take their place.  The market will adjust and things will change.  It like anything else if you do a good job and good business you will survive and or flourish.  If you make poor decisions like badging people, invade their privacy, do wild mass mail marketing.  You will get customers but you will lose more in the long run.  All things in Moderation..

 

1 hour ago, haylau said:

adblockers and they all pay

I didn't pay anything other than the hardware.  I am not paying for a ad blocking service.  

 

Sorry if this is consider hijack the thread BTW..

[Factor]

5 hours ago, Gotabor said:

That's some huge gap

From the Matomo site https://matomo.org/

"100% Accurate Data

Did you know accurate data reporting is often capped? Meaning once your website traffic reaches a certain limit, the data then becomes a guess rather than factual.

This is where tools like Google Analytics becomes extremely limited and cashes in with their GA360 Premium suite. At Matomo, we believe all data should be reported 100% accurately, or else what’s the point?

Take the challenge: Compare your Google Analytics data (sampled data) against your Matomo data."

[lesley]

I don't think he is at that level. There are limits on GA of course, but we are talking millions of views a day limits. I am thinking the likely cause is GA is filtering bot user agents. Things like Moz, Aherfs, Majestic, ect. That would be my guess. You could always do like a 24 log test and test against. Or maybe Matomo has a plugin to filter bot traffic. I just googled, it seems so, https://plugins.matomo.org/BotTracker 

[Factor]

Ah gotcha.  

3 minutes ago, lesley said:

Matomo has a plugin to filter bot traffic

Might be a good addition to the Thirty Bee's Piwik (Matomo) plugin.😎

[lesley]

Our plugin works off of their service being installed, so you would need to add that plugin to your Matomo installation then you could use it with our plugin. 

[Factor]

Great thanks.

[AndyC]

Hi

Have installed and added code but am still not receiving any hits ... Code is located in Panda footer.tpl near the bottom and just above

HERE

    </body>

</html>

[Factor]

16 minutes ago, AndyC said:

installed

Matomo?

There is a module in TB

Modules > Analytics and Stats 

Matomo Web Analytics v1.2.1 - by thirty bees

Matomo Web Analytics Javascript plugin

[colorful-ant]

others were faster today with answers 😉 
I'm not sure. I have not used piwik (now matomo) for a very long time.

possibly the code in javascipt must be entered with <literal> code .... </ literal>.
and do not forget to empty shopcache as well as browsercache.

EDIT:
oh, a module, that should make things easier

Edited June 24, 2019 by colorful-ant

[AndyC]

Ok ...I've setup via module.. That was easier than expected ... I wish google ,facebook /twitter would learn this integration.. Once user logged in it updated itself

Do I still need the script in the footer.

I also think I have turned on no tracking for myself so I can't test it lol

 

EDITed

Quick VPN to USA and bingo it's tracking me ... Thank you for pushing me in this direction, it's much better

Edited June 24, 2019 by AndyC

[Factor]

12 minutes ago, AndyC said:

Thank you for pushing me in this direction, it's much better

It's what we are all here to do help each other.  So you like Matomo?  I am going to install it as well and see.  I like the idea of running my own server.

[AndyC]

It looks really good but will need to test it more like a week or 2 to see if I really like it.But I am sure I will,just a quick once over and loving it... Also makes a lot more sense that google analytics and coming from me that's a saying something lol

 

 

[Gotabor]

13 hours ago, Factor said:

From the Matomo site https://matomo.org/

"100% Accurate Data

Did you know accurate data reporting is often capped? Meaning once your website traffic reaches a certain limit, the data then becomes a guess rather than factual.

This is where tools like Google Analytics becomes extremely limited and cashes in with their GA360 Premium suite. At Matomo, we believe all data should be reported 100% accurately, or else what’s the point?

Take the challenge: Compare your Google Analytics data (sampled data) against your Matomo data."

In can confirm I'm not at the limit except if it's been drastically reduced to a very few thousands view ^^
For all the comparisons I've been doing so far, there is a difference around 20%-30% in visitors depending on the day. With Matomo always having more visitors than GA. I do wonder what would be the difference for a computer hardware website for exemple. With a more tech oriented customer base.
 

I found Matomo quite impressive at first with a lot of tabs (and I don't think I use more than 25% of them even now...) But I agree that it's still better than GA interface, but well that's just me and honestly I'm having a hard time with most of google web tools, I don't find them intuitive at all.

[Factor]

Setup my own server. Pretty easy.  The UI is easy to understand. So far it’s good for us.  Lot easier than google. 

[AndyC]

Been using it for a bit now and finding really interesting data that I have never had before. Also finding it a heck of a lot easier to understand than google

[Gotabor]

Today I've taken some time to compare the numbers beetween GA and Matomo, and I'll revise my previous judgment. I said "there is a difference around 20%-30% in visitors depending on the day." in favor of Matomo.

That's what I thought, because it was something I identified based on daily visits over the past month. However, after looking up to august 2018 (my first full months of stats on Matomo), I found out that the overall monthly difference is more around 5% to 10% for both unique visitors and the total number of visits. Sometime in favor of GA, sometime for Matomo. The only big difference I see is on the number of pages seen which is doubled on Matomo, I assume it is generated by bot traffic.

 

I also noticed, that GA is "lying" about the browser used. On GA for June I get a big 50% of chrome users. Meanwhile Matomo indicate 40%. The 10% that remains are in fact users on Chrome Mobile.

I'll keep updating the topic if I find more interesting data or corrections to previous statements.