thirty bees 1.1.1 - pre-release bug hunt

[led24ee]

"Like us on Facebook" module is not working. Text is visible, but the FB picture is not visible. Can anyone confirm ?

 

[led24ee]

Well. This "Like us on Facebook" problem was in real life adblocker.

[led24ee]

Problem with product picture names. I use estonian and english. If I change picture name in one language for only one picture, then in other language all names comes to this what is for first picture. The language stays right, only picture name changes. In both direction, this mean that there is no difference with language I use. In other language there will be always only one name for all pictures. Can anyone confirm ?

[led24ee]

Is there any news or plans for release ?

[Acer]

Does anyone know if this TB Bleeding Edge + Panda caching issue has been resolved?

@rubben1985

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Theo

[rubben1985]

11 hours ago, Theo said:

Does anyone know if this TB Bleeding Edge + Panda caching issue has been resolved?

@rubben1985

 

Not solved yet. @Jonny seems he is not working right now at the office due to the current coronavirus situation. He told me he would investigate it when he will be come back to the office

Edited February 28, 2020 by rubben1985

[Acer]

On 2/28/2020 at 9:03 PM, rubben1985 said:

Not solved yet. @Jonny seems he is not working right now at the office due to the current coronavirus situation. He told me he would investigate it when he will be come back to the office

Thanks @rubben1985 for the update. Really appreciate it, I'm sure that others that are using Panda and have a concern about next TB release appreciate this also.
Had a feeling that Jonny's delay or silence could be Corona related. Phew, at least he appears to be ok. May it stay that way.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Theo

[rubben1985]

@Theo he answer me and he told me is something in TB. He can not do more...

Seems like deactivating cache for those modules (megamenu...) is the only solution if someone from TB does not have any idea

[datakick]

1 hour ago, rubben1985 said:

@Theo he answer me and he told me is something in TB. He can not do more...

Seems like deactivating cache for those modules (megamenu...) is the only solution if someone from TB does not have any idea

What cache are you talking about? Smarty? Full page cache? 

[rubben1985]

Main cache option. I suppose smarty

[Acer]

9 hours ago, datakick said:

What cache are you talking about? Smarty? Full page cache? 

More detail and specifics about the problem here:

 

[toplakd]

Currently running latest bleeding edge on live shop for last couple of months without any issues anywhere. I update to latest bleeding edge few days after I see it in core updater.

However I don't use any caching and I'm running Heavy modified TB Community theme (from 1.0.7 TB version) with 24 TB modules + 3 other modules.

Shop is running smooth in front and backoffice.

I think TB Team is on right path here making fixes and updating the core.

Most problems here are with thirdparty modules, where developers don't follow with fixes for new relases.

It was to expect that sooner or later compatibility with PS 1.6 will start loosing it's ground, as if you want to go forward you have to make some cuts and decisions.

I spent about 200 hours for modifying and polishing my fork of TB Community theme, where others think buying 75$ theme will bring them lifetime support for every new version or update of the shop platform.

 

[Acer]

20 hours ago, toplakd said:

It was to expect that sooner or later compatibility with PS 1.6 will start loosing it's ground, as if you want to go forward you have to make some cuts and decisions.

Wow. This comment is very disconcerting. And I don't believe that I'm the only one in the community that feels like this.
My face felt like it went a little pale when I read this... Cuts??

The Point: TB is PS 1.6
The entire point of TB was to take care of the thousands of PS 1.6 stores that were suddenly left adrift by Presta with the 1.7 shift.
And to provide a better PS 1.6 than the actual 1.6 and continue with the PS 1.6 improvements and bug fixes and new PHP versions etc.
And to be largely compatible with most existing 1.6 modules and themes. Essentially a continuation of PS 1.6.
This is the very reason merchants and developers migrated over to TB from 1.6 in the first place.
For the most part, it was a painless process.

We need a solid foundation on which to build
We don't need shifting sands. We need stability and certainty and backwards compatibility.
Most stores have external third-party 1.6 modules that were designed for the original PS 1.6 and that work just fine with TB 1.1.0.
If these modules do not work with a later version of TB, then the stores will grind to a halt. With no TB alternatives...

For example:
Advanced Search 4 - great PS 1.6 version - lotsa people use it. If it doesn't work - major deal breaker. The built in layered navigation is not a suitable substitute...
Panda theme (even though it's been updated to 1.1.0) - contains great modules that come with the package, like: Mega Menu, ST Easy Content, ST Blog, ST Related Products, etc.
+ Revolution slider (packaged with Panda). And yes, it beats the Community theme hands down in many many ways. $75? Worth it and more.
+ Advanced Feature Values (multiple values for a feature - free module, created for PS 1.6, works in TB). 
+ Some great little modules by @Nemo (mass tax rule update, etc) and Vekia (Hook creator) and many more.
Like on this list: https://thirtybees.com/partners/compatible-modules/
If this all of a sudden doesn't work in TB 1.1.2+ for example, my store and lots of other stores will be dead in the water.

PS 1.6 module compatibility:
Losing PS 1.6 module compatibility is not ok and will cause merchants and developers to migrate away from TB unfortunately.
As the whole point of them coming here would be nullified.
It feels like the initial point of the project may be getting lost. And one day, we as developers and merchants will see TB 1.1.3, and won't be able to upgrade.
The nett result is that merchants will be leaving in droves. If this happens TB will die.
And while it's dying its user base will dwindle, and it will be seen as just another 'niche' project until its eventual slow, sad and painful death.

Somehow it feels like a silent f u to the merchants and developers. If this happens we will be left in the lurch.
Like the carpet is suddenly pulled out from under our feet.. 
It will almost be as bad as what happened with the Magento 1 to Magento 2 story.
Hundreds of thousands of stores completely 'abandoned' by Magento - because upgrading to Magento 2 easily is virtually impossible due to change of architecture and module incompatibilities. 
And Presta? PS 1.6 to PS 1.7 - I don't even have to mention the complete f'up that that was? I mean I'm typing this in the official Thirtybees forum after all, no?

The point is - I'm not saying that our stuff is not working or that this is the TB plan...
I'm just making the point that we want PS 1.6 compatibility going forward. 
That's why we are here. We believe in TB and have spend money and hundreds of hours creating stores for it. We appreciate the effort the team and community have put into it.
I for one, want to know that as far as the modules I'm using today is concerned, when they're running on TB 1.1.4+ in a few years from now, the modules think that they're running on PS 1.6.
And everything works as it should. 

I'd love to hear from the TB team what they think about this and I think some clarity would be great for all of us.
@Traumflug @lesley @datakick

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Theo

[wakabayashi]

@Theo You are too nervous. Nobody stated that 1.6 compability will be given up soon. And as you stated yourself, the modules are working right now. 

The point @toplakd wanted to make (and I completly agree on it). This project has to move forward. This is done with so much attention, that almost every 1.6 ps module is working out of the box. But seriously this project is now 3 years old. The most of the 1.6 ps merchant's now won't switch over. They have had enough time. How long do you wanna wait for them?

Btw: I use the advanced search 4 module too. It's feature rich, but actually crap. It's slows down your shop so much... Look at @toplakd shop. He has a very slim setup without many external modules. He doesn't even need the smarty cache to have a super fast website. When it comes to feature values. I propose since years, that multiple values should be supported from the core. External module don't help here much as the multiple values won't be used by other external modules then...

[Acer]

18 minutes ago, wakabayashi said:

@Theo You are too nervous. Nobody stated that 1.6 compability will be given up soon. And as you stated yourself, the modules are working right now. 

The point @toplakd wanted to make (and I completly agree on it). This project has to move forward. This is done with so much attention, that almost every 1.6 ps module is working out of the box. But seriously this project is now 3 years old. The most of the 1.6 ps merchant's now won't switch over. They have had enough time. How long do you wanna wait for them?

Btw: I use the advanced search 4 module too. It's feature rich, but actually crap. It's slows down your shop so much... Look at @toplakd shop. He has a very slim setup without many external modules. He doesn't even need the smarty cache to have a super fast website. When it comes to feature values. I propose since years, that multiple values should be supported from the core. External module don't help here much as the multiple values won't be used by other external modules then...

Am I really too nervous or do I not have a point? Will these modules work in Bleeding edge and future versions? I'm currently running on 1.1.0.
Thirtybees needs the existing PS 1.6 modules to work. It just doesn't have a large enough developer base and store to fill that gap.
Advanced Search 4 is not crap. Latest version is working very fast on our store - and its features are a business requirement.
In terms of "Multiple features for a value" come on? When was it proposed, more than 3 years ago and still nothing? Hence a free PS 1.6 module that works great.
I even got the developer to reach out to TB and donate it to the Core... but no, not priority to implement - @datakick confirmed this.
I mean even PS 1.7 has Multiple values for a feature now...
And yes, you can do a lot with "vanilla TB" - but other modules are there to fill unique and other business requirements. Not every need will be met with vanilla TB.

TB is built on the PS 1.6 foundation. Many people rely on PS 1.6 themes and modules and need to know that these will work going forward.
Like in future TB 1.1.4 for example. I mean, you can still run some Win XP / 2000 programs in Windows 10. No need to destroy the foundation on every evolution...
Would be great if we could also get some feedback from the team.

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Theo

[led24ee]

I don't understand. You really think that some things will last forever ? Some things was replaced by better items, some are deprecated. It's called evolution. And this simply exist, You like it or not.

Edited March 4, 2020 by led24ee

[wakabayashi]

@Theo You are argumenting as ps 1.6 would be an alive project. It will die sooner or later. Devs won't upgrade their 1.6 modules at some point (I believe some devs already left or focus only on 1.7).

But as an example: in our country there soon will be a new way of invoicing. It will happen with QR Code. If I am lucky, there will still be a ps dev that says: "oh ok, 1.6 will still bring enough revenue. I will publish a new module." but what, if not? We are living in digital age. Time is moving fast. What if browser come up with new rules? What if a new php version isn't compatible with 1.6 modules? TB is now great, but if there is no plan to move forward, the project will die for sure.

In Short: The 1.6 modules support gives tb a basement right now, but it won't save tb for the future. AGAIN: Nobody said, that this basement should be errupted now for no reason.

[toplakd]

How external modules are made/written is completely on third party developer. Ones only see the money in masses and take all possible shortcuts to make the module work.

If such module relied on bug that was in core, its developers fault that it stopped working once bug was fixed. Same with themes.

I'm pretty sure that all modules that are available from thirty bees installation are working at least 99,9% of the time, if not fix gets released.

But once fixing one bug or more, breaks third party module/theme, than its time for its developer to check why fix is causing problems in his module/theme, but it works flawlessly on stock.

Some changes had to be made for TB to work well on newer php versions. Smarty version is getting older and older.

Themes still use old Fancybox where Fancybox V3 already supports mobile sliding and stuff (I use it).

So I believe there will be more and more changes in the thirty bees future which will also break more of the not well written modules/themes which were just copy pasted as TB Compatible.

 

I don't use tb/ps invoicing for 10 years, as those are not real invoices in our country as they can be altered in database, so if I used such invoice I would be on illegal side already.

That's why my shop generates (writes) Order Confirmation instead of invoice, as invoice is later made in bookkeeping program which is approved from the state.

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by toplakd

[Acer]

10 minutes ago, wakabayashi said:

@Theo You are argumenting as ps 1.6 would be an alive project. It will die sooner or later. Devs won't upgrade their 1.6 modules at some point (I believe some devs already left or focus only on 1.7).

But as an example: in our country there soon will be a new way of invoicing. It will happen with QR Code. If I am lucky, there will still be a ps dev that says: "oh ok, 1.6 will still bring enough revenue. I will publish a new module." but what, if not? We are living in digital age. Time is moving fast. What if browser come up with new rules? What if a new php version isn't compatible with 1.6 modules? TB is now great, but if there is no plan to move forward, the project will die for sure.

In Short: The 1.6 modules support gives tb a basement right now, but it won't save tb for the future. AGAIN: Nobody said, that this basement should be errupted now for no reason.

Thanks @wakabayashi and @toplakd for the reply. I'm just curious what the plans are for PS 1.6 compatibility in the future?
Like if that foundation will be removed and when? So will TB still be compatible in principle with the best and well written / correctly written PS 1.6 module in a year or two from now?
Obviously provided that that module is latest PHP version compatible?
I know it's difficult to predict. I'm just curious if there is a Road map. And while we're on the subject: "Multiple Values for a Feature in Core" ? What's happening with that?

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Theo

[wakabayashi]

3 minutes ago, Theo said:

Like if that foundation will be removed and when? So will TB still be compatible in principle with the best and well written / correctly written PS 1.6 module in a year or two from now?

I am not from the official team, but my answer still would be: YES!

We all know: if tb would now just give a shit on 1.6 support. It would die immediately. In my opionion it's much more likely that 1.6 won't work anymore, since smarty, php, or any browser forces for updates. When such a technical change will hapen, nobody can tell. But it will happen. And with some modifications the old ps modules can probably be even used after this kind of revolution. So really don't worry too much. You have anyway no alternative 😆

[toplakd]

I'm not in the developers team nor I have the crystal ball so the future is unclear to me.

I will adopt my shop whenever needed to newest tb standards until I will do my current business.

The things I personally need are already there, crazy fast and stable shop platform.

I would also use tb Paypal module, if one could ditch that few paypal loading requests on each and every tb page 🙂

So for now, PS 1.6 Paypal module has to do its job.

[Acer]

6 minutes ago, wakabayashi said:

So really don't worry too much. You have anyway no alternative 😆

Hahaha - that's reassuring 😂 "Don't worry, there's no alternative." So just accept you're pretty screwed and carry on until you hit the cliff 😎
 

5 minutes ago, toplakd said:

So for now, PS 1.6 Paypal module has to do its job.

Yeah in terms in payment gateways - the one I use is for PS 1.6 as well - and will unlikely be updated for TB. No built-in TB one for that.
So hence my concern.

Also would be nice if the team could say something here as well...

Edited March 4, 2020 by Theo

[led24ee]

Some will also understand that nothing is eternal and will be able to determine their next steps based on it. But some are hoping that maybe this current situation will be forever.

[Acer]

15 minutes ago, led24ee said:

Some will also understand that nothing is eternal and will be able to determine their next steps based on it. But some are hoping that maybe this current situation will be forever.

Hey Windows 10 still runs XP programs - so what are you talking about? It's called a foundation. Yes the stuff on top evolves, true. And everything changes, yes.
However, in the thousands of years we've been building houses, the shape outside and inside and look and feel has changed many times. But - you still build a house on a foundation.
If you don't have this basic principle... So a solid foundation can stand the test of time and constant evolution on the outside... 
Many buildings from thousands of years ago are still standing today because of this principle. Just look at the Hagia Sophia. It became a Mosque, but was built as a cathedral initially. Lol, it evolved again, and is actually a museum now.
It's changed on the outside and "evolved", but its foundation is still the same and it's still standing. It's like 1,483 thousand years old!

Edited March 4, 2020 by Theo

[toplakd]

You still have to understand, that thirty bees is open source free of charge software, no matter if based on prestashop or any other platform.

Fixes and improvements behind it are mostly not paid  if one could calculate all the hours spent.

Heck, even on paid solution shops (monthly or yearly subscription) many things sometimes are not working as they should, or there are bugs which are not fixed for extended amount of time.

So bitching over something that is free of charge is not a good thing.

If you look at PS. They said end of support for 1.6, please move to 1.7 and pay for some basic modules that were free in 1.6.

Even prestashop evolved during the years. I started with 1.3.8 and they moved on with versions as things had to be fixed until they said its time for something totally new and brought out 1.7.

Once you will sell for couple of millions per year  than you can have your own software team which will work on your own custom shop platform.

 

1.6 is now obsolete, and if new futures and bugfixes in TB will break some of the obsolete compatibility, then so be it.

You have to understand, that not many developers are willing to change/fix their 1.6 themes (which also include some bugs) to the latest fixes, as its easier to milk the money as long as it goes, as they are already selling new 1.7 version of their theme.

 

If one can not afford to spend 200-300 $/€ yearly for maintaining the shop, than its time to quit internet business and going to some daily job.