Brief about status of project

[Briljander]

Hi,

Wouldn't be possible for Thirtybees crew to give a brief about status of the project that you randomly do?

What actual status is and maybe what next step is in roadmap?

Always nice to know about plans and maybe a good time to release them in the end of the year?

Thanks in advance

[wakabayashi]

Up (because this is an important question)

[Kashir2000]

Also Interested! Any roadmap, plans?

[Briljander]

Doesn't seem so.

For those interested, here is Prestashops thoughts about he future:

https://build.prestashop.com/news/prestashop-in-2019-and-beyond-part-3-the-future-architecture/

[zen]

I have to admit that I have serious doubt once again about TB prosperity.

It needs a real community spirit.. clarity and a vision , DH42 where are you ? Tell us how TB works, who is in the real team, what is the Next step....

and maybe some bounty prices for dev that accomplish things will also help to grow faster and deliver good functions free of bugs 🙂

 

Happy New Year 2020 !!

[AndyC]

I do think you should give the guys time to answer the question. They may well be off doing other things like family or just having some time off at this time of year.

[Occam]

On 12/30/2019 at 3:34 PM, Briljander said:

Doesn't seem so.

For those interested, here is Prestashops thoughts about he future:

https://build.prestashop.com/news/prestashop-in-2019-and-beyond-part-3-the-future-architecture/

You mean this chief programmer, whose visions of a tabula rasa in strange denial of reality are based on the assumption that hundreds of IT companies or freelancers who develop modules or themes for Prestashop will enthusiastically change their developments completely and follow their new leader unconditionally. Dream on!

This is what the real world looks like when you don't view it from the Prestashop ivory tower:

Quote

Almost all official modules are written by people who do not use Prestashop guidelines.. UPS, DHL, Paypal. All those try hard to use their frameworks instead of Prestashop ones.

(https://gitter.im/PrestaShop/General?at=5df21d010616d6515e268af9)

What we see currently, after more than 4 years of new development, is clumsy, split into thousands and thousands of files, more confusing than ever and constantly generating new problems and bugs. Borowicz himself does not dare to predict when the development will come to an end. And if he doesn't leave Prestashop prematurely like all his predecessors, the last annoyed user will probably have turned to a different shop system before the visions could be realized.
My goodness, this is a shop software and not an isolated special design to control the next Mars expedition.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Occam

[Kashir2000]

23 hours ago, Briljander said:

Doesn't seem so.

For those interested, here is Prestashops thoughts about he future:

https://build.prestashop.com/news/prestashop-in-2019-and-beyond-part-3-the-future-architecture/

Will take lots of time to stabilize it. 1.7 is complete failure for almost 3 years. It's slugishly slow because of overhead symphony adds. The only thing you don't notice it is because servers evolved, SSD and NvME etc.

Yesterday I copied shop from one of my clients, and it was 1.6.0.11... almost don't remember it was so fast... backoffice generation (board) takes 200ms.
Front page pages generate in less than 350ms with cache enabled and less than 2500ms with caches disabled (index.php only times).

ON same server, newest 1.7 takes 3-4 times more... 1.7 is broken by Symfony implementation

[led24ee]

7 hours ago, AndyC said:

I do think you should give the guys time to answer the question. They may well be off doing other things like family or just having some time off at this time of year.

This time of year ? There's more than month, when people are waiting for answer. If You ask again then don't think that time will also start again.

[Briljander]

I didn't say 1.7 was better or the way to go. I have already made my decision not to go with 1.7 but I must say I liked this series of articles which declare what is wrong, what needs to be fixed and what the vision of the future is and a coming article which may try to adress the problems. 

I will still go with TB but I am missing the future vision of the project and any thoughts of how this vision will be realized. It's more than a month since last contribution in GitHub from what I can see and this is what we have been told to look at if we want to "follow the developement".

 

[DRMasterChief]

I honestly have to say that i can not understand why some people/users are in such hurry?  The best way to develop a project / a business / an idea,  is to work smooth and to be deliberate.  This would have the best success, and not any updates a week with doubtful changes or things that we do not need.

tb 1.0.8 is a good and stable system, which you can use for a productive shop and business,  maybe it is a little bit more stable than 1.1.0  (in some things), but this you have try for your own. 

Sometimes i think about the future of the project (i already did not use tb productive, as we are not finished with some things), but even if there were disruptions or the termination of the project, we would still have a stable system that we could use for many more months until you switch to a different shop system.

 

[Briljander]

There is no hurry at all, just lack of information. If you invest time and money in something I think it's pretty obvious that you don't want to go down a unknown path. 

I am working as a project manager with implementations of ERP-systems when I don't work on my e-commerce project.

Think if we would say to our customers that we don't have a plan for the future and don't have deadlines for when tasks will get done. Also we don't tell them what we have done or will do next or even when the project will end? That would have been interesting. 

Of course there are differencies cause this is a open source project but I do still think for everyone involved here it would be nice to have a roadmap, time-schedule and regular updates of the progress. Thats about all I am asking. It makes my planning easier and I do think Thirtybees will win people's trust and loyalty in an easier way.

And if they don't have the time to do this cause it's a small team. Then please tell me that instead, it makes my decision and planning easier too...

 

[DRMasterChief]

I absolutely understand that point,  but it's exactly this..... small team, small budget, maybe a lot of things to do or a lot of ideas.   But....  there are a lot of updates and a superb quality of work - even for such a small team and such a small budget!

I think they do a better job and more useful updates than a PS -Team with maybe 5 times more people....

btw.  thank you for this to all developers  😍 

[musicmaster]

2 hours ago, Briljander said:

but I do still think for everyone involved here it would be nice to have a roadmap, time-schedule and regular updates of the progress.

Thirty Bees already has more features than Prestashop. I don't see much urgency to add more at the moment.

What I consider much more important is getting Prestashop users to switch over. I don't think the lack of features is stopping them. Rather it is a lack of templates and to a lesser extent modules. Sure, Thirty Bees offers support if you use templates and modules that aren't guaranteed by their makers to work with Thirty Bees. But that is a rather weak offer. It would be much better when they could point to a list of templates and modules that have been tested and found to work.

In this light I would prefer to be reticent in adding new features. At this stage maintaining PS 1.6 compatibility is crucial and any addition is a risk factor for compatibility. 

[Traumflug]

So far my impression of this discussion is that some people are more into leeching free software rather than running and growing their own business. Not a single post along the lines of "I'd like to do this or that, but I can't, because thirty bees doesn't cut it".

Why would future plans of thirty bees matter? One of the great features of thirty bees is its entire independence from any server. No dependency on a central server, no dependency on cloud services, nothing to renew regularly. Even if the thirtybees.com server had an extended outage, your shop installation would barely notice. And thirty bees is even a bit better in this regard than PS.

A thirty bees installation won't ever go away. One can hardly imagine a more solid foundation for doing investments, for growing a long term business. Nevertheless, merchants have to grow their business them selfs. thirty bees won't do it for them.

[Kashir2000]

4 hours ago, Traumflug said:

So far my impression of this discussion is that some people are more into leeching free software rather than running and growing their own business. Not a single post along the lines of "I'd like to do this or that, but I can't, because thirty bees doesn't cut it".

It's only natural. Wherever there is open source project there will be leechers and supporters. But everyone is worries if it will survive... There are some supporters, there was roadmap which disappeared from site. It's natural everyone is worried... and there are a lot of people who fear thirtybees and spread word that it's dead project... why? I will answer in next section...

4 hours ago, musicmaster said:

What I consider much more important is getting Prestashop users to switch over. I don't think the lack of features is stopping them

What fears people most of thirtybees? There are some people thinking of thirtybees, but few wrote via main contact from... no answer... I also did write a message once via page contact form and had no answer... first thing comes in mind that there is no answer? No one maintains it...

On that, people who are afraid of thirtybees are basing their claims it's going to be dead (or is dead already). Every non answered question rises doubts... those "doubts" are used by enemies to prove that tb is dead...

Basically, all claims "thirtybees is dead" can be easily backed up by inactivity and no clear goal... no progress.

And what, from my experience is frightening most people?

• devs - a lot of developers are not building modules properly and rely on database queries instead of API - they will not advertise tb because it will mean more problems for them
• modules - as above, lots of modules will not work with tb due to database changes (actually... are there any changes in db structure? compared to 1.6? )
• inactivity - No one answers contact forms... better remove contact form, email adress and tell people to ask in forum than leave it not answered
• no clear goal - there was a roadmap... i really loved it. If people don't know whats planned, then they don't know if anything is happening.

So... all those people ask themselves one question: Will it survive? Will there be updates in 1, 2 or 3 years?

First thing people are taught by Prestashop: 1.6 is EOL, and that 1.6 is not secure anymore as it does not receive updates. And people actually believe that there will magically appear security issues out of nowhere because its labeled EOL (non programmers don't know how software is made and believe this propaganda). Going this way they come to conclusion: if project dies, then there will be no updates, which will result in insecure shop... better go with 1.7.

Many core modules needed in my country may not work with tb due to database changes (not tested). And those modules are must have... there will be no PS migration to TB if they're not sure devs support thirtybees... and that's concern i hear the most, even more than EOL complains.

If any of you have employee... and he is drunkard... you never know if he will be in work next day... then you don't want to employ such person... even if he does best work, none will keep them as he is not reliable.

Even tho thirtybees is far more stable in terms of software, there is clear concern about stability of staff/crew/creators. And many matters you do not attend to create such illusion you're not there.

As Brijlander linked us vision of 1.7.... even if it's partially bullshit, people who don't understand it rise in trust to Prestashop...

I won't lie... I'm also one of those people who are afraid about future of thirtybees. You're fighting against Goliath here... against trust to Prestashop brand... and you don't try to build this trurst...

[zen]

You wrote good things, i'd like to add this : why is the gitter chan still on ? because no one never use it and it makes look TB dead already.. not good for image and communication, in the beginning it was active for real, but that's a long time ago.

 

Edit : Seems like someone is trying to talk on this gitter channel... or trolling who knows.

Edited January 2, 2020 by zen

[lesley]

I know everyone is looking for a public update from me. I made a post on the supporter forum the other day about what is going on. My health has not been good the last 6 or 7 months. I have unfortunately had to reduce the amount of time I have been able to spend working on anything because of this. That is why I have not been around as much in the last several months. The things I have focused on when I do have the energy and am well enough are behind the scenes things like financing, taxes for the company, and things of that nature. I really wish I could give some kind of positive update, but the truth is I having a surgery next week that will determine how my life will go forward. I just cannot give a definitive answer on anything, or my role until after that and I recover a bit. I feel like I am letting you all down and that really pains me and has been stressing me out beyond belief these last couple months. I am sorry I don't have a happy update this time. 

[AndyC]

Good luck for next week .. Hope all goes well

[Occam]

@lesley

That's not something you need to apologize for, though. Your own health should always be given priority over professional goals and entrepreneurial visions. I wish you strength and all the best for your surgery and your hopefully well recovery. God bless you.

[zen]

I wish you the best Lesley I hope you will recover fast and get into that year 2020 with joy and happiness !!

 

[Kashir2000]

@lesley That is what we wanted and didn't want to hear at same time :(. I'm somehow happy knowing what is happening but utterly sad about your health state. Wish you all best!

[Traumflug]

12 hours ago, Kashir2000 said:

Many core modules needed in my country may not work with tb due to database changes (not tested).

That's what I see everywhere. Fear, but no actual testing. There are no significant database changes.

[Traumflug]

9 hours ago, zen said:

why is the gitter chan still on ?

All hints to this channel were removed already. No mentioning in the Readme ( = Github front page), no mentioning anywhere else. People appearing there either find it by googling or follow old links.

[Kashir2000]

2 hours ago, Traumflug said:

That's what I see everywhere. Fear, but no actual testing. There are no significant database changes.

It's due to 2 reasons. One is time, other one is that these modules (I'm talking about) are not mine and don't have licenses for them. All my modules are tested against thirtybees and work without problems 🙂 So I did test - but only ones I created 🙂

2 hours ago, Traumflug said:

All hints to this channel were removed already. No mentioning in the Readme ( = Github front page), no mentioning anywhere else. People appearing there either find it by googling or follow old links.

Still. They get there and ask question none answers... can't it be disabled?

Edited January 2, 2020 by Kashir2000