Is thirty bees dead?

[MockoB]

Everybody knows what I mean. I'm sorry I have to be the person who asks it, but I know I'm not the only one worried here. I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful but the users must know if there is future for thirty bees. The reason I'm asking is because there aren't any updates recently on github, almost a month. If there are any, they are from developers who are not directly related to the project and just participating! I think all of us here need clear statement from both @Lesley and @mdekker that everything is fine. Almost month since no visit from @mdekker in the forum, no blog topics from @lesley, everything seems that there is something going wrong. At least tell people we have to work for living and we will continue with the project someday, or we are quitting. I know you need to rest like normal ppl, but at least tell us something. That information blackout is killing me :)

[Beeta]

so do you think that this is not going to happen? https://forum.thirtybees.com/topic/1571/progress-sharing/15

[MockoB]

I really have great expectations from this project, but there are things which bother me. It doesn't matter what I think, it only matters the answer of the ppl whom the project depends on...

[movieseals]

@mockob Most of the points you raise are addressed in this thread by the people concerned:

https://forum.thirtybees.com/topic/1571/progress-sharing

There will be an update in April.

I want to say that I got more help on this forum in a couple of months that I ever got in two years on the Prestashop forums... I think what TB needs is promotion and good word of mouth more than anything else and some sort of marketplace to generate income for those working hard behind the scene.

No projects can ever be perfect but I believe in this one because I have already seen night and day results on many fronts since I migrated. It also takes time to get things right. Everybody has different needs and concerns. Nobody will get everything addressed within the time frame they want. But I don't think there is cause for panic or worry just yet. My two cents, for what it is worth.

[Generaal]

I'm Not conserning about new releases, but more to solve the existing bug's and short commings. And the support, they are great by TB!

[MockoB]

I really hope there is no need for panic, but as you are here for two months, I'm following the project since day one. And my impressions for what it was and what is now, make me ask the question at first place. I hope we will get the answer soon, because it is concerning many of us, less those who didn't started yet and more those who already have running shops.

[Baarssen]

I think there are more people who are taking some rest at the moment. There are people who normally are very active but now they are not. In an online community we see this very often. However i understand your concerns. Maybe its an idea that some people from the community can support with Public Relations. Something like the ambassador programm like PS. I surely will help with this so if interested i can make some time free for this.

I think we are putting to much pressure at the shoulders of @lesley and @mdekker Also i think TB will have to stop (or at least minimize) with free modules. Life isnt free, so there has to be generated income.

[MockoB]

I absolutely agree with the free modules! For example I will buy onepage checkout module more than 2 licenses soon, it is 90 euro each. Why not buy it from thirty bees store if there is such module, also product videos, and many more ... But that's not important at the moment.

[vincentdenkspel]

@baarssen said in Is thirty bees dead?:

Also i think TB will have to stop (or at least minimize) with free modules

I totally agree. That's why a while ago i suggested to development of modules by crowdfunding. The people who back which a minimal ammount will get the module. Once the crowdfunding is ended people can buy the module in the store but for a higher price the int initial crowdfunding price, but still for a very reasonable price. I really see various benefits when modules are developed this way. 1) @mdekker and @lesley can devote more time to TB since they will get an income from the developement of modules. 2) The more modules are being developed the more attractive TB will become. 3) We the people will get high quality modules. a win-win-win situation i would say.

[Kleijn36]

@MockoB and @Baarssen I totaly agree, i want to by all my modules (1 page checkout) at the Thirty Bees marketplace and not on PS Addons or other commercial sellers. The fee/profits must go too TB to keep it alive. I also agree about the free modules, why not ask a small commision! TB has to make more income, there are still too less (only 19) patrons. Think over the bussines model! I think they need urgent help with the commercial site off Thirty Bees and make contact with developers to sell their modules or templates at the Thirty Bees Marketplace.

[lesley]

No, it is not dead. I have had to take a couple of weeks off to revamp my company's site so I can start changing the focus of the offerings. I know @mdekker is also trying to balance making a living with thirty bees as well. So, it is not dead, we are just having to balance making enough money to pay our bills and working on thirty bees.

[MockoB]

Thanks for the clarification @lesley ! And consider about offering thirtybees' partners paid modules on the store and own paid modules also. It's another way to make living. I know your policy about the free modules but you might reconsider it, or make something as paid subscription for modules, or anything else which will bring income to the company.

[Generaal]

The most shop owners strungle with income from their shop. Therefore, I think, when some TB's come with a payed service for SEO support and when that comes to results, they will pay even for the other TB stuff, like modules and add ons. When my shop are ready to go live, I want to buy the import module from DataKick, it's feel fine to know, there are support and don't let me stuck in the middle of questions. And when there are a TB support that generate income from my shop, I will even pay for that, but on the moment, there are so many companies that promise you the SEO heaven on earth.

[MockoB]

At other hand, when it's startup, it's always hard to pay for modules or themes ... That's why there should be free modules, but I think thirty bees already has everything needed for well working shop, even more with the contributions from @datakick, @wakabayashi, @SLiCK_303 and others. I remember the times when I started some time ago and buying modules was not in my list ... i wish there was thirty bees then.

[nickon]

The problem is that tb is to small ATM. Two people working on the core is not enough. In order to get more developers tb has to grow. For tb to grow it needs more shops. Consider what most merchants need: 1. Free. Yes anyone who can save on setting up a store will consider that 2. An easy to use and maintain shop. TB has inherented both a good and bad legacy from PS. To me little things like editing an order in the BO or mass editing is something realy missing 3. Fast. I think tb has done a good job already on that. 4. Support. These forums are already great on doing so. 5. Active community. Considering the size of tb this is already very good. Look at @SLiCK_303 , @datakick , @wakabayashi These are users putting in time and developing FREE modules that are way better even for old similar paid modules from the PS shop. 6. Communication with the users. This is lacking IMO. @lesley and @mdekker are not communicating enough with the community. Asking for help from the community is also not bad. We need to hear from @lesley and @mdekker both for minor things (eg I need to take some time of the work on my companys site) or bigger things (eg fixes in the migrator / updater). Why is it for example not asked from the community to help publicly I mean. Sometimes a tweet would be enough. And why is the migrator such a big deal? What If I am setting up a new shop and don't need the mirgator?

And the money? Most open source projects do not make money from selling products. They make money from support and customization. But to have this you need to have the 1 to 6 points above. Also I think that some moves where wrong eg. the elastics module. although a great idea and a good module I doubt many are going to use it. It is just too overkill. The same (or less ) money could be used to develop a better OPC module or a payment module. or fix the migration module considering the time spend by @mdekker. People are talking about patrions. I think 19 are not that bad considering the size of TB. For more patrions you need more users. IMO opinion TB should target the small /medium retailers. That's what PS was good at.

I could go on but this is already a long post. Sorry :-)

[zimmer-media]

A lot of time has been invested since the development of TB. Some bugs from PS have been fixed and the system is running faster. Very good performance.

The performance, troubleshooting and further development, this project size to load the basic system on the shoulders of only 2 people is difficult.

Personally, I can not invest in the Patron project. First, I call reason 2 - I could not yet realize that I also get an invoice or proof for this issue / investment -> Reason 1 It is targeted to Michael. Ok, but what if the worst happens to him? Car accident, a stair fall with broken neck etc ... Who then takes over the job?

[Traumflug]

@nickon said in Is thirty bees dead?:

And the money? Most open source projects do not make money from selling products. They make money from support and customization.

Not too sure on this one. People see their "almost ready" shop for free or a small hosting fee, so they struggle quite a bit to spent like $5000 to get these last 10% of work done. They see a free module close to their needs, so they struggle to spend like $2000 to get one precisely to their needs. And no, there are no $50 "quick fixes" for custom work, such contracts are usually promotional gifts.

In general, many small income sources are more rewarding. Do the work once, sell it 1000 times. Like with, well, a paid module. Or for thirty bees, with a share on modules sold by other developers.

[wakabayashi]

At least Traumflug is still alive :) good to see you back here @Traumflug

[nickon]

@traumflug l myself am such a small website the prices i have payed so far are not even close to That. So far I have spend not more than 300€including shipping and payment modules and some custom coding

[wakabayashi]

@nickon That is basically, what he is saying, isn't it?

[nickon]

@wakabayashi He was talking about 2000 & 5000€ did I understand wrong?

[wakabayashi]

I understood it like this: A new merchant wont spent 2000€, if 90% is working for free. He wants to buy some cheaper module and spend 200-300€. He said this in answer to the customization post from you.

As you said: you haven't spend yet a big amount for modules. What would you be ready to pay for customization and support? Keep in mind that this things are a way more expensive than modules, which can be sold multiple times.

[nickon]

@wakabayashi that is together with customaziation and support. Mostly done by me

[nickon]

These are all good ideas. Let's see how/if @lesley or @mdekker will follow one of these

[30knees]

By the way, has @Traumflug (thanks for all the good work!) jumped in for @mdekker, who seems to no longer be working on tb? Or are both working on tb now? I ask because lately I've seen lots of commits from @Traumflug but none from @mdekker anymore.