Goodbye

[zen]

1 minute ago, Theo said:

Nice to know 😀 

Very Nice Site & Compliments, well done! 😃

thank you 🙂

I just lost all my comment .. that was really well written and everything well balanced, such an intelligent post.. ha ha ha

and it's all gone after a refresh with a bad click on the "prev" button mouse... 😞

Anyway I just wanted to say : I'd like TB to remain Open Source for sure and free for all also.... But I'd love to see a CE / Pro version of TB that comes with entreprise support and personnalized quality hosting, people will surely pay for that.. all bugs will be fixed, all basics needs for entreprises connections to ERP, ERM, CRM, PIM, and all others 3 letters tools that you imagine.

Most of the entrprise needs are similiar and if we have an expert team, it will rock for sure.. imagine an entrprises that can deal directly with the software programmers.. that actually never happen, most of the time this company works through agencies with licenses.. and the result is often mediocre.

I can help for servers and hosting for TB in Entrprise version.. and I spend a lot of time with scripts for products / customers/ orders Sync, that means, like many of you I already have a lot of already make code that can help others entreprises in their goal.

Note : I never talked about a clouded TB version for public.. that is not a good idea.

Copied from Magento website , about the entreprise version :

 

Quote

 

About the Feature List

Enterprise Edition erases the boundaries of what is possible, giving you the power to create bold and unique shopping experiences that will transform your business.

Built for rapid and cost-effective innovation, the platform combines rich, out-of-the-box functionality, enterprise performance and scale, and powerful business tools to keep you ahead of increasingly complex commerce operations and growing customer demands.

 

I think it's one of the best way to make TB alive and growing in the future, I used it a lot for entreprises websites and it works really GREAT !

[toplakd]

39 minutes ago, Theo said:

Lesley mentioned that we can do with TB what we like - so if we want to fork it - it's no problem. Nowhere has he mentioned a "certain amount of posts make you qualify" - lol 😁
Besides, Anna wasn't saying that she wants to take over, merely that she'd be willing to fork TB if we wished.
And imo, forking it is not the ideal solution here.

I know, I just want to bring some smiles on faces during this conversations 😊

[zen]

1 minute ago, toplakd said:

I know, I just want to bring some smiles on faces during this conversations 😊

@toplakd You deserve to be slaped with a trout !

[zen]

I recommand not to rush to choose the best thing to do, to be prepared and think twice before rushing into any plan otherwise it might and up like this :

Hey... Anyway we had some fun !!

[AnnaLisik]

55 minutes ago, Theo said:

forking it is not the ideal solution here.

Why do you think that forking is not ideal solution here?

[zen]

4 minutes ago, AnnaLisik said:

Why do you think that forking is not ideal solution here?

it's still possible to not break TB reputation (even if it's small) if it's not forked, and keep on increasing it while keeping brand, logo, forum, community etc..

Edited April 20, 2020 by zen

[AndyC]

I would 2nd that ... Starting from scratch is even harder

[Acer]

14 minutes ago, zen said:

it's still possible to not break TB reputation (even if it's small) if it's not forked, and keep on increaing it while keeping brand, logo, forum, community etc..

@AnnaLisik same reason as @zen with the addition of existing revenue from Supporter base + Partners. If we can help it. 

Hopefully the TB Company and leadership issue gets resolved...

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Theo

[AnnaLisik]

Just now, zen said:

it's still possible to not break TB reputation (even if it's small) if it's not forked, and keep on increasing it while keeping brand, logo, forum, community etc..

I agree, but on the other hand, reputation follows the project, and - correct me if Im wrong - the only person that will change is the repo owner. Correct?

All I want to establish is that if people ( = potential devs) would come to the repo, they will see known (and well-established) nicknames so they will instantly catch.

[AnnaLisik]

1 minute ago, Theo said:

@AnnaLisik same reason as @zen with the addition of existing revenue from Supporter base + Partners. If we can help it. 

Im affraid Im not following what you were trying to communicate here?

[zen]

2 minutes ago, AnnaLisik said:

Im affraid Im not following what you were trying to communicate here?

he's talking about the money income for TB enterprise that will need to be redone again.. that will take time too.

[zen]

5 minutes ago, AnnaLisik said:

All I want to establish is that if people ( = potential devs) would come to the repo, they will see known (and well-established) nicknames so they will instantly catch.

That is true.. who are you thinking about for taking the ownership of the repo ?

[AnnaLisik]

1 minute ago, zen said:

That is true.. who are you thinking about for taking the ownership of the repo ?

Someone who has managerial skills probably, who is with the project from start, who has the most accepted PRs, whatever.... criteria is one thing that needs to be established.......

It would be nice if owner of the repo = project leader.

[Traumflug]

1 hour ago, Theo said:

Lesley mentioned that we can do with TB what we like

Yes. If your pocket is deep enough.

Remember: https://forum.thirtybees.com/topic/4027-goodbye/?do=findComment&comment=34625

Quote

the company would be hundreds of thousands in debt.

 

[AnnaLisik]

1 hour ago, toplakd said:

I was wondering how come you have not registered before, as being heavy user you've most likely have had some issues or suggestions regarding the modification.

Let me answer you: I did not register as Im self learner, and, if/when problem arises, I like to solve it myself.

[toplakd]

Point taken.

Same here, but from time to time I like to comment something, or ask if I cant find the answer.

@datakick most likely had his inbox always full, due to all the questions we asked him directly

[dynambee]

Forking would be a last resort, IMO.

It is time consuming and expensive to establish a new brand and rebuild everything from the bottom up. It would be better to keep the existing brand, website, forums, repos, module shop, supporter payment system, (and more) in place.

If there is absolutely no way to work things out and keep the existing structure then a fork and rebuilding can be considered, but it's an immense undertaking.

[AnnaLisik]

38 minutes ago, dynambee said:

It would be better to keep the existing brand, website, forums, repos, module shop, supporter payment system, (and more) in place.

In this case the only (?) thing that would change is the owner, right?

38 minutes ago, dynambee said:

Forking would be a last resort, IMO.

why?

Oh, and forking does not need to mean rebranding; in this case rather save brand, but change owners.

Edited April 20, 2020 by AnnaLisik

[Acer]

50 minutes ago, dynambee said:

Forking would be a last resort, IMO.

It is time consuming and expensive to establish a new brand and rebuild everything from the bottom up. It would be better to keep the existing brand, website, forums, repos, module shop, supporter payment system, (and more) in place.

If there is absolutely no way to work things out and keep the existing structure then a fork and rebuilding can be considered, but it's an immense undertaking.

So why don't all of us that are interested have a meeting with @lesley to discuss and come up with some ideas?

Surely the company doesn't have to be hundreds of thousands in debt? Maybe there's a different way to approach this without selling the company? Maybe Lesley stays on as a shareholder or something? 

So can we all have a meeting @lesley? 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Theo

[dynambee]

9 minutes ago, AnnaLisik said:

In this case the only (?) thing that would change is the owner, right?

Correct.
 

9 minutes ago, AnnaLisik said:

47 minutes ago, dynambee said:

Forking would be a last resort, IMO.

why?

I'm sorry, but did you read my previous post at all? There is a huge amount of work that would need to be redone from scratch if the project is forked. Website, SEO, blog (all existing posts & knowledge gone), forums (all existing knowledge, discussions, & users lost), social media, module shop, existing supporters platform, etc. If it is absolutely necessary to redo all that work then fine, it has to be redone. I'm curious though, are you volunteering to pay someone to do it? I expect it will be quite expensive to duplicate the level of branding & design that already exists, and yes, branding and design are important if one wants to be taken seriously as a business, project, & platform.

Personally I don't think it is a good idea to reinvent the wheel unless there is no way forward that can save all the existing work.

Edit: I'll also add, a fork would mean needing to redo the existing core themes and edit the codebase to change everywhere the TB name appears to be the new name. This may sound trivial but it took ages for TB to get that right. I think even now there are times that PS pops up where TB should be instead. It's just more work that needs to be redone, duplicated effort. Starting with a completely existing platform means all effort can be spent on pushing the project forward. Forking means a huge amount of effort has to be wasted to redo work that has already been done once.

Edited April 20, 2020 by dynambee

[AnnaLisik]

34 minutes ago, dynambee said:

Correct.
 

I'm sorry, but did you read my previous post at all? There is a huge amount of work that would need to be redone from scratch if the project is forked. Website, SEO, blog (all existing posts & knowledge gone), forums (all existing knowledge, discussions, & users lost), social media, module shop, existing supporters platform, etc. If it is absolutely necessary to redo all that work then fine, it has to be redone. I'm curious though, are you volunteering to pay someone to do it? I expect it will be quite expensive to duplicate the level of branding & design that already exists, and yes, branding and design are important if one wants to be taken seriously as a business, project, & platform.

Personally I don't think it is a good idea to reinvent the wheel unless there is no way forward that can save all the existing work.

Edit: I'll also add, a fork would mean needing to redo the existing core themes and edit the codebase to change everywhere the TB name appears to be the new name. This may sound trivial but it took ages for TB to get that right. I think even now there are times that PS pops up where TB should be instead. It's just more work that needs to be redone, duplicated effort. Starting with a completely existing platform means all effort can be spent on pushing the project forward. Forking means a huge amount of effort has to be wasted to redo work that has already been done once.

Now I get it :: in your concept fork = start over. But no. By fork, I understand taking the code as-is, just changing the owner of repo and push/pull paths. Thats it! No need for redoing anything. Just change owner, than change push/pull paths locally and off we go - the project is ready to accept contributions. As simple as this.

 

Quote

duplicate the level of branding & design that already exists

There is absolutely no need to duplicate anything.....

 

Quote

Starting with a completely existing platform means all effort can be spent on pushing the project forward.

Thats exactly what I understand when talking about fork

 

Quote

edit the codebase to change everywhere the TB name appears to be the new name.

Yes, of course. But, only if new fork is going to be given new name. Thats a breeze. In most IDEs there is an option that will allow you to do this

Edited April 20, 2020 by AnnaLisik

[Briljander]

39 minutes ago, dynambee said:

Correct.
 

I'm sorry, but did you read my previous post at all? There is a huge amount of work that would need to be redone from scratch if the project is forked. Website, SEO, blog (all existing posts & knowledge gone), forums (all existing knowledge, discussions, & users lost), social media, module shop, existing supporters platform, etc. If it is absolutely necessary to redo all that work then fine, it has to be redone. I'm curious though, are you volunteering to pay someone to do it? I expect it will be quite expensive to duplicate the level of branding & design that already exists, and yes, branding and design are important if one wants to be taken seriously as a business, project, & platform.

Personally I don't think it is a good idea to reinvent the wheel unless there is no way forward that can save all the existing work.

Edit: I'll also add, a fork would mean needing to redo the existing core themes and edit the codebase to change everywhere the TB name appears to be the new name. This may sound trivial but it took ages for TB to get that right. I think even now there are times that PS pops up where TB should be instead. It's just more work that needs to be redone, duplicated effort. Starting with a completely existing platform means all effort can be spent on pushing the project forward. Forking means a huge amount of effort has to be wasted to redo work that has already been done once.

I agree that there is a lot of work and effort put into this project that would be better for everyone not to do allover again but in the other hand I don't think the brand is worth a couple of hundred thousands. 

[dynambee]

1 minute ago, AnnaLisik said:

Now I get it :: in your concept fork = start over. But no. By fork, I understand taking the code as-is, just changing the owner of repo and push/pull paths. Thats it! No need for redoing anything. Just change owner, than change push/pull paths locally and off we go - the project is ready to accept contributions. As simple as this.

You really don't seem to understand.
 

If we fork we GET this:

• ThirtyBees code
• ThirtyBees' modules' code

 

If we fork we LOSE this:

• ThirtyBees name
• ThirtyBees website & SEO
• ThirtyBees branding & design
• ThirtyBees forum (including all users and multiple years of existing knowledge & content)
• ThirtyBees blog (including all knowledge, posts, and discussion there)
• ThirtyBees social media accounts
• ThirtyBees supporters platform & all existing supporters
• ThirtyBees modules & themes store (which I think was a custom build on top of a TB website)
• ThirtyBees existing installed user base -- there is no guarantee that any of them would move to a new & known to them platform
• ThirtyBees partners, of which there are quite a few and that took a LONG TIME for ThirtyBees to build up.
• Probably a whole lot more that I am forgetting to include here

All of that would be GONE and need to be REBUILT FROM NOTHING. It's a massive undertaking.

Also, while a fork would give us the code, it would still need modification. Currently all error messages and branding show the ThirtyBees name. This would all need to be fixed. It's not a simple "search and replace" either as there are many copyright notices in the existing code that would need to be maintained. Forking doesn't invalidate the TB copyright for existing work. The included themes (community & naria (sp?)) would need to be modified and changed to the new branding, too.

So while forking does give the code it gives NOTHING ELSE. I can understand that to many programmers the code is "everything" but I promise you there is much, much more to a successful project than just having the code.

[AnnaLisik]

5 minutes ago, Briljander said:

I agree that there is a lot of work and effort

Effort yes; lot of work: also yes. But its the same with every project that wants to be/is successful

[datakick]

4 minutes ago, AnnaLisik said:

Now I get it :: in your concept fork = start over. But no. By fork, I understand taking the code as-is, just changing the owner of repo and push/pull paths. Thats it! No need for redoing anything. Just change owner, than change push/pull paths locally and off we go - the project is ready to accept contributions. As simple as this.

This is so funny. Of course you are right. Technically, this is what forking a repository means. That also means that thirtybees has already over 200 forks, so no need to worry 🙂