Goodbye

[AnnaLisik]

2 minutes ago, datakick said:

hat also means that thirtybees has already over 200 forks, so no need to worry 🙂

How many of them is successful and can be recognized as a fully blown successor of TB?

@dynambee I dont (fully?) agree with loosing things like forums/blog, website, knowledge, partners etc. Why did you say TB would loose it?

 

[dynambee]

8 minutes ago, Briljander said:

I agree that there is a lot of work and effort put into this project that would be better for everyone not to do allover again but in the other hand I don't think the brand is worth a couple of hundred thousands. 

The valuation on paper is probably more than any of us can afford to pay. Startups with customers & a functional system tend to be valued quite high -- again, on paper.

The actual valuation is what someone is willing to pay. Sometimes there are very big differences between the two. Sometimes the first is very high and the second is zero. Other times companies way overpay for acquisitions if the target is for some specific reason worth more to THEM.

With TB it probably depends on what @lesley wants to see happen to the project and if he see himself being able to come back and take the lead again sometime soon.

[dynambee]

1 minute ago, AnnaLisik said:

@dynambee I dont (fully?) agree with loosing things like forums/blog, website, knowledge, partners etc. Why did you say TB would loose it?

Forking, by definition, means the project is split and there is a new project created. The new project is not TB any longer but some other new project. The only thing the new project gets is the open source code. Code is a lot, but it's only a small part of what TB is in total.

If @lesley is going to hand the name, forums, blog, website, knowledge, social media, etc etc etc to "the community" or to some new entity then there is no need to fork because obviously in that case the existing repository would be part of that hand over.

[toplakd]

[cprats]

In my opinion, we cannot let die the best ecommerce software I've ever seen, and we must do whatever is necessary to guarantee this goes on. We could all migrate to PS1.7, but I don't want to rely on that software: headaches suddenly ended when I met TB. I am a PS1.6 refugee from the time it was announced support would be stopped to favour 1.7, and I won't go back.

 

[innercode]

@lesley glad to hear that you are getting better. It is really good, even if it is slower than expected.

It is actually up to @lesley what he will do with this project. If there is a buyer, then it is easy, new owners will do what they have planned before buying. If not, it either will be community driven, or it will die one day. As already said previously, there must be someone who manages everything.

If done it properly, it probably needs hundreds of thousands per year to run, and to push this project forward. It must be a team who works full time.

Community driven software (if possible at all) would be better than nothing, but there must be someone who watches after repo, forums, etc. The good thing is, topic like this brings a lot of community to discuss, the question is whether there will be the same amount of supporters and contributors to keep it at least alive.

We are willing to contribute, it is really great project, runs a lot better than PS 1.7. (at this moment so far), and it is a pleasure to work with, since we used 1.6. a lot for client stores, and they need to be supported.

Anyway.. I'd like to add one point that I think no one mentioned before - time. After 2-3 years there might be a lot less support for PrestaShop modules, and PrestaShop developers won't support their modules for TB because it is too small community.

Thirtybees in order to move forward must drop PS compatibility, redesign default theme. It must be attractive. PS 1.6. themes are old school, and will get even worse with years.

PS 1.7. looks a lot better now, and for small basic project it would probably be a better solution because it looks better. e.g. 1.7. fake OPC (steps with redirects) is more simple and easy to use than 1.6/TB OPC. PS 1.7. is slower, but running better hosting still will be cheaper compared to the price invested in the 1.6. design. Design doesn't matter only if customer is creating it from scratch, and project is bigger (PS 1.7. seems to be for smaller projects).

If there will be market with only few modules, newcomers probably won't come, because all solutions will cost a lot to develop. Also unknown brand, etc. etc. Try "selling" (as developer) TB for your client. If he browses here a little bit more, and sees last version's release date, probably he will go with PS. Clients don't care about code quality, or functionality much if it is more or less the same. They need trusted brand, maintained platform, in order not to recreate shop after few years again, and not to have difficulties finding developers if needed.

At the beginning TB had advantage that mostly everything from Addons would work. This time period must be used to gain popularity enough so that PS developers would still maintain modules for TB, and TB could move forward its own way. Then it would be a lot easier. This scenario most likely to happen if someone invests in thirty bees company (buys it).

Lastly.. 🙂 it is up to you @lesley but if the question whether this project survives or not goes down to selling the company to buyers who will monetize it the way you don't like, please, sell it. Selling modules is OK, not sure about user data, I'd say it depends, if it is anonymized stats, it is fine. Important thing is to have good quality platform and modules. It is better to have TB project with same monetization model as PS than a dead project.

 

[M4ketech]

Hello everyone.

I agree with "Thirtybees in order to move forward must drop PS compatibility, redesign default theme. It must be attractive." TB is TB, and that is reason why its good. Im been doing code side with Opencart since 1.5.X something, that was years ago. I didnt like Opencart version 3 changes, too big steps and everything was "new". Thirty Bees is fast, but that is true Prestashop 1.7 is more modern and with good host (even like "cheap" root server) its damn good.

I was thinking about TB modules, like payment modules (maybe not for free, but dirty cheap) since i need do something and live. I know that Opencart marketplace takes 50% from sales, that is much, but i cant reach 500$/month limit so i need live with that, that only means that extension prices are higher.

I cant remember how i did find Thirty Bees, but that wasnt any marketing, maybe is just read something from Quora.

I must say its been fun and nice to work with TB store, but sometimes i just feel "Why im using this, this is just fork" and when i need do custom stuff, what keeps me forking something else?

Now when im doing new store, i dont know what i pick. I want active community with leader. So if i make custom stuff, modules or find bug fixes i can share those and my time is not going wasted.

 

[Smile]

A smaller group is thinking working and thinking about a plan. Maybe it works maybe not but I expect in a few weeks we will know where we are heading.

[Jon88]

@cprats , @innercode i agree. 

[musicmaster]

Having just encountered this thread I want to add my own two cents:

 - I appreciate all what Datakick has done for TB and hope that a solution can be found that keeps him involved. I wish Lesley a good recovery.

 - the core problem seems to me leadership. The fact that it is a company makes that only more complicated. It doesn't look like someone wants to buy it from Lesley at the moment. And it is unclear what is Lesley's plan B.

 - my idea for getting more users would be to get closer to Prestashop. Produce some free "got to have" PS 1.6 module (gdpr would have been an option) for PS 1.6 to build name recognition. There should be a module for migration from PS 1.7 (the database is almost the same as 1.6 so that shouldn't be particularly hard). There should also be modules to migrate back to Prestashop - or at least references to services like Cart2Cart. You cannot tell people that they will be locked in once they migrate to TB. And it shows confidence that they will stay.

- the name Thirty Bees is a bit of a handicap. Most other webshops have a word like "shop", "commerce" or "cart" in their name that makes it much easier to recognize what they do. It doesn't help that we don't have a story behind the name that would help to remember it. Changing the name might be hard but one could consider changing the subtext and logo.

 - some people campaign for PS 1.7 compatibility. I don't see much potential there at the moment. If you look at the database the only real innovation of 1.7 is that you can have more than one value for one feature. For the rest it has a few extra database fields that quite likely are seldom used. There has been quite some discussion about multi-feature on the forum here - the code is there but some people expect problems with existing modules. 

 - some people like the 1.7 development environment and specially the template. I think Prestashop is too much of a moving target at the moment for such an adoption to make sense. By the time the TB code would be ready PS might be at version 1.8/8.0 and have introduced some other major changes.

 - if you really want to add something distinctive to TB my choice would be headless ecommerce. 

[Acer]

24 minutes ago, musicmaster said:

Having just encountered this thread I want to add my own two cents:

 - I appreciate all what Datakick has done for TB and hope that a solution can be found that keeps him involved. I wish Lesley a good recovery.

 - the core problem seems to me leadership. The fact that it is a company makes that only more complicated. It doesn't look like someone wants to buy it from Lesley at the moment. And it is unclear what is Lesley's plan B.

 - my idea for getting more users would be to get closer to Prestashop. Produce some free "got to have" PS 1.6 module (gdpr would have been an option) for PS 1.6 to build name recognition. There should be a module for migration from PS 1.7 (the database is almost the same as 1.6 so that shouldn't be particularly hard). There should also be modules to migrate back to Prestashop - or at least references to services like Cart2Cart. You cannot tell people that they will be locked in once they migrate to TB. And it shows confidence that they will stay.

- the name Thirty Bees is a bit of a handicap. Most other webshops have a word like "shop", "commerce" or "cart" in their name that makes it much easier to recognize what they do. It doesn't help that we don't have a story behind the name that would help to remember it. Changing the name might be hard but one could consider changing the subtext and logo.

 - some people campaign for PS 1.7 compatibility. I don't see much potential there at the moment. If you look at the database the only real innovation of 1.7 is that you can have more than one value for one feature. For the rest it has a few extra database fields that quite likely are seldom used. There has been quite some discussion about multi-feature on the forum here - the code is there but some people expect problems with existing modules. 

 - some people like the 1.7 development environment and specially the template. I think Prestashop is too much of a moving target at the moment for such an adoption to make sense. By the time the TB code would be ready PS might be at version 1.8/8.0 and have introduced some other major changes.

 - if you really want to add something distinctive to TB my choice would be headless ecommerce. 

Hi @musicmaster your comments are interesting and right on the mark, especially in terms of leadership and headless ecommerce. There is currently a thread and Discord chat server going between Lesley and the community regarding a way forward for TB. @lesley @AnnaLisik please add @musicmaster to the thread and invite to the Discord discussion. Also please add @Occam as well as he may be interested also 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Theo

[AnnaLisik]

@Theo Ive sent an invitation. Now its up to @musicmaster and @Occam to join or ignore it.

Edited April 25, 2020 by AnnaLisik

[Acer]

12 minutes ago, AnnaLisik said:

@Theo Ive sent an invitation. Now its up to @musicmaster to join or ignore it.

Thanks. I believe he should also be added to the private Forum thread that Lesley created. So he can get a background of some of the ideas that was discussed. @lesley

[AnnaLisik]

2 minutes ago, Theo said:

Thanks. I believe he should also be added to the private Forum thread that Lesley created. So he can get a background of some of the ideas that was discussed. @lesley

What private forum are you talking about? Can you PM me a link please?

EDIT: @musicmaster just joined Discord 🙂

Edited April 25, 2020 by AnnaLisik

[Acer]

12 minutes ago, AnnaLisik said:

What private forum are you talking about? Can you PM me a link please?

EDIT: @musicmaster just joined Discord 🙂

The message thread remember 

[netamismb]

6 minutes ago, Theo said:

Thanks. I believe he should also be added to the private Forum thread that Lesley created. So he can get a background of some of the ideas that was discussed. @lesley

would be possible to add me to the thread?

[AnnaLisik]

@netamismb probably yes 🙂 @Theo I still have no idea which topic you are talking about?

[Acer]

Hi @AnnaLisik 

Maybe add @netamismb to the Discord and maybe send @dynambee an invite as well.

This the thread. You're there also

https://forum.thirtybees.com/messenger/317/?page=6&tab=comments#comment-2270

Edited April 25, 2020 by Theo

[AnnaLisik]

@Theo Aaa this one. Than Im also in. You are correct.

OK will send the m an invite Sent 🙂

Edited April 25, 2020 by AnnaLisik

[Acer]

11 minutes ago, AnnaLisik said:

@Theo Aaa this one. Than Im also in. You are correct.

OK will send the m an invite 🙂

Thanks 👍

[veganline]

Last time I looked, everyone had to wait until the most active member went to sleep and do the talking before he woke-up again! I will have another look.

Theo on the forum had a good idea of putting his country code (ZA) after his name, which is useful when asking-around for possible affiliates. There is also an Association Plan Thirty Bees on a google doc and an offer from Leslie on another. 

[M4ketech]

What? Discord and private forums? 😮 Invite me please.

i agree with @musicmaster the name Thirty Bees is a bit of a handicap. There is also Magento, Sylius, Opencart, Prestashop, Shopware, CubeCart etc. most of them have "cart" or "shop", and those names without, those are short ones. Like Sylius and Magento. I did work with Reaction commerce, but i always forgot that project, since name is too hard to remember. Saleor is nice to remember, i think its good name. Saleor has nice website targeted to people moving from Magento.

[wakabayashi]

Lol I got banned from the discord channel by @AnnaLisik. Ok: then good luck to all of you 😉 

[Acer]

10 minutes ago, wakabayashi said:

Lol I got banned from the discord channel by @AnnaLisik. Ok: then good luck to all of you 😉 

What? Surely that was a mistake? 

[Acer]

@wakabayashi @AnnaLisik

I've let her know and asked her to unban. Was probably done by mistake. Pls let us know if you can access again..Also @AnnaLisikcan you please invite @M4ketech?