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jollyfrog

I will help design a new thirty bees theme

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2 hours ago, zen said:

No, it was only a small storm ending up with nothing.

Now even more questions and doubts about how and when having a new theme.

Hard to land the plane if it never takes off...

I think it's mostly related to the hooks and blocks system being so convoluted. Meaning not straight forward enough visually to say the Xoops block system. Which in the Xoops blocks system makes visual sense as soon as you see the darn thing load. Of all the aspects of this system that's the one I hate messing with the most. Can I do anything personally about it NOPE. I really miss my son contributing to open source projects in that realm... 

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Does anyone have a good understanding of what themes are currently compatible and will be compatible with the next upgrade of TB?

I use Niara, Im of the belief that its about the only thing thats compatible with TB and modernish - given that sunnytoo has moved on from TB.

I dont particularly like Niara, its pretty dated especially the checkout page. But I dont believe there's anything better, can someone prove me wrong?

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@Mark I don't think there is anything better. I have the same issue as you, beside that I have my own "outdated" theme. It's not only that the Design is outdated. A lot of the technical stuff is no more state of the art. It makes it hard, to maintain or rewrite anything. 

I for myself have started this weekend to play around with an empty theme. So to start completly from scratch. Technically the idea is to go with Tailwind and AlpineJS. But I think no other dev is really interested in working on it too. That's why my project will probably end either in a "no result" or in a "private result"... 😐

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I'd love to see sunnytoo get back involved. He makes Panda etc but looks like he gave up on TB? Can he be spoken with to help out @Smile
with the theme.. its pretty important that front end is just as good as back end

Edited by Mark

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5 hours ago, wakabayashi said:

@Mark I don't think there is anything better. I have the same issue as you, beside that I have my own "outdated" theme. It's not only that the Design is outdated. A lot of the technical stuff is no more state of the art. It makes it hard, to maintain or rewrite anything.

Same here, using Niara with the 3 steps checkout hack from @toplakd, with some changes I had to make and uploaded here:

I do think that it's very important the very first thing you see after installing this software.

Good luck, wakabayashi :)

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Certainly sounds like a pretty dire need to get a quality theme going.... But from scratch @wakabayashi?? That sounds like an incredibly long hard road? Wouldnt it be easier to take an existing great theme like say Panda (that doesnt work properly with TB unfortunately), and speak to Sunnytoo (the maker of Panda). I spoke to him once before and it was just too much work for small sales to get it compatible with TB.

Maybe if the talents here that have already volunteered to help could make Sunnytoo's life easier getting it compatible then it we could have something high class for TB?

His code is obviously not open source (a far as I know).

I am sure many here including me would pay for a decent theme (or at least components of a decent theme), it is  a pretty large achilles heel with TB.

 

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@Mark I wish I had more to offer. I could provide a design, but as for integrating it into thirtybees, I just don't have the skills.

By the sounds of it, @wakabayashi needs another PHP dev more than he needs a graphic designer.

If someone needs me, I still get the notifications.

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21 hours ago, wakabayashi said:

@Mark I don't think there is anything better. I have the same issue as you, beside that I have my own "outdated" theme. It's not only that the Design is outdated. A lot of the technical stuff is no more state of the art. It makes it hard, to maintain or rewrite anything. 

I for myself have started this weekend to play around with an empty theme. So to start completly from scratch. Technically the idea is to go with Tailwind and AlpineJS. But I think no other dev is really interested in working on it too. That's why my project will probably end either in a "no result" or in a "private result"... 😐

One of the problem is module compatibility. You can create a nice new theme based on new technologies, like Tailwind, but you will have hard time integrating it with third party modules, as they expect the basic setup to be available - bootstrap and jquery. Which means that you will have to modify/adjust a lot of modules templates

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2 hours ago, datakick said:

One of the problem is module compatibility. You can create a nice new theme based on new technologies, like Tailwind, but you will have hard time integrating it with third party modules, as they expect the basic setup to be available - bootstrap and jquery. Which means that you will have to modify/adjust a lot of modules templates

Of course you are @datakick right about that point. But to be very honest: I don't care. I only use a handful not "genzo" modules in front end. Cause I have for example my own search, filter & affiliate modules. I think most shop owner just overblown their shop with a lot of module features (that sometimes even break eachother). The only important external modules are IMO shipping and payment modules. But of course selling my theme would only make sense, if I also sell all my modules and offer some custom support. As I indicted above with "private result", it's probably not gonna happen.

I for myself just dont wanna sit a few more years on outdated designs. A relevant part of my customer base just expect a flawless shopping expierence (on mobile) and I just can't give it to theme right now. Is it possible with Jquery & Co. No doubt. But it makes just no sense, to rewrite a theme with it @Mark. It has be done like 100 times before. Its what Niara did. I dont think I could deliver a much better result than Niara...

So if my project ever gonna finish, it will be more a TB 2.0 or a TB 3.0 Theme.

@jollyfrog Yeah I guess the hard work will be writting all the TPL Files, not the design itself. As I dont use multiple stuff from the core. I won't obviously focus on this feature... For example my interest in customization is near to zero right now...

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Boostrap Currently v5.1.1 without Jquery and different shorcode for classes, so It is not possible to use it as well.

What about Boostrap 4 ? also not really easy to make modules compatibles with it without rewriting their tpl section.

So we can stick only to Jquery and Boostrap 3 ? I hope not.. what are the solutions, a transition version or a breaking one ?

If we keep on like this, TB is not going anywhere, I believe we need to get rid of Jquery first, that will need some work on many modules but it's for the best and a brighter future.

 

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9 minutes ago, zen said:

Boostrap Currently v5.1.1 without Jquery and different shorcode for classes, so It is not possible to use it as well.

Thats a very good point. The compatibility break of mine has not a lot to do with Tailwind or AlpineJS. It's just that web development changed a lot in the last 5 years. 

You can ofc sit on Jquery Solutions and so. It works. My shop is using it now heavily too. If Jquery would be the only issue, I could also load it just for compatibility reasons. That wouldn't be a big deal. But I guess, the deeper I will dig into my project, I will find issues, that will break compatibility. 

The best thing would be if a Theme Designer can use Bootstrap 5, Tailwind or whatever.

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yup, it's time to move on. current state is unacceptable in a long run. theme architecture is archaic, with a lot of teeny-tiny modules for very specific outcome. as many of you said before - you really don't need a bunch of modules, a successful shop can be build with just a few of them. for sure, building a new theme in community style will not be easy, but IMO it's the only way. TB user base is too small to invest a lot to build new modern theme and frankly, I really don't like commercial themes as those are bloated with too much stuff.

if someone starts such a project, I will try to help.

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@jollyfrog can you provide a finish design (accepted by community members) that covers most important pages: home, category, product, checkout, cart? 

 

 

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@yaniv14

Yes, I would if the community agreed that it was the best course of action. It is a substantial amount of work to waste if there isn't an organised team who want to implement it.

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Awesome @yaniv14 are we going to get requirements for this and know what users want, then start to work out what is involved and whos going to do what? We should have a list of all users, then wants.... Then work out the doable list from that.

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Niara on modern technology would be a great target, and resting-point.
Till then, I am a back-seat driver with no skills to offer, but there are some ideas further up the thread.

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9 hours ago, yaniv14 said:

I will do it

That is good news.

How do you wish to proceed?

Are you happy to move forward with Orchid (in the current style) as a basis for the overall design, or would you and/or those interested like to make suggestions regarding the design and function?

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@jollyfrog I prefer not to be involved in a decision about the approved theme design. and leave the decision to the members of the community and you.

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👍  There should be a focus on SEO too,  so this means the category site and home should have some space for text content related to the products. 

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2 hours ago, yaniv14 said:

@jollyfrog I prefer not to be involved in a decision about the approved theme design. and leave the decision to the members of the community and you.

in such case this initiative will fail. don't get me wrong, but 'community' will launch an endless loop of wishes.

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@yaniv14 OK. Understood

@cienislaw given the discussion over the last 7 months, I am inclined to agree with you.

With that in mind, I think it is best to ask:

Who would like to be involved in decisions/discussion relating to the new theme?
(anyone is welcome — no coding or design skills required)

 

In this group (looking at those who have commented on this thread and discussed the topic with me), I assume the following people would like to contribute suggestions?

@veganline, @Mark, @Traumflug, @datakick, @cienislaw, @zen, @wakabayashi, @DRMasterChief, @yaniv14, @Wartin, @AndyC, @toplakd, @superbiche, @Briljander, @Mediacom87, @netamismb, @Billy

 

Please make me aware if this is correct, or if you would like adding to or removing from the list.

 

Once we have a group decided, all (fundamental) suggestions should be submitted within a given time frame (prior to any designs or code being written).

I will do my best to document and summarise suggestions.

I assume everyone is happy that any disagreements can then be settled by vote.

Once the community has spoken, I will do my best to design the theme based on the community's wishes.
(It is unlikely that the design will please everyone, but hopefully the majority will get what they need out of the theme).

 

Is anyone available to support @yaniv14 in the near future, should he need it?

Edited by jollyfrog
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from my perspective it's simple:

1. point out where current themes suck and address those issues

  • mobile experience
  • shopping process ux
  • cart...
  • code duplication to achieve the same thing in different places

2. give it modern look with minimal set of features

3. reduce quantity of modules used to achieve that

anything else should be in merchant hands or someone hired by him.

Edited by cienislaw
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